IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Tim Hensley on February 13 2015, 01:19:07 PM
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<blockquote> Im over the 10K mark with this build.I have put three sets of mains in this thing .
I have been over this engine with a fine tooth comb .completely disassemble thoroughly clean and reassemble only to do it again .
I have been through the trans cooler pressures Good ,converter fit good,crank and block look good.
Tune I dont know ,its a 6.1 TT Alky chip untouched ,Alky controller set at 6 , boost only 20lb ,ET 12.0 MPH 112 not pushing it,leave soft go WFO
I have gotten KR when it hits the rev limiter (5800) and only 5 times it has done that ,,its never lean and the rod bearings is a little hurt buy contamination but OK(I still change them)head gasket not hurt,plugs look good ,not lean no detonation good heat range ,I use Valvoline 10-30 racing ,no engine cooler ,no trash from there
Im ready to through this thing away and buy a new short-block from someone I'm just afraid to repeat my problem and do it again
If 5K+ short block would make this go away id spend it.Its the not knowing that terrifies me .I chose 11.5 ET to keep it fun at the track and have nice Sunday drives with my wife around the island </blockquote>
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Any pix of the bearings you took out? Is the crank straight? Has the block been alingn bored? You say you only detonated a few times but with it spittin bearings you may have the wick up a bit too high and are pounding the bearings out with the detonation.
Something is wrong to be having that much trouble.
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tricky
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took me a some time to figure that out
thats 3500 miles 10 passes at 20lb boost
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this block was line bored with three new steel caps added
yes today the crank is .0005 at #3 .0003 at #2
The KR came at 5800 right at rev limiter I believe it to be false head gasket no hurt
I have been trying to figure how to post the loges its to tec for me
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Are the caps snug in the register I would suspect center cap alighnment
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It all looked good ,all caps are snug. I check the bore all are round to the .0000,so no cap has collapsed,the #3 bearing did collapse as you can see in pic ,I just new that cap would be a problem this time,bearing set befor this set hade more trust damage it was +.008 of where and this one was +.004,I've had a T in the transmission lines with a pressure gauge TV cable adjusted with a gauge,
I'm sure I'll pull the trigger for a short block just got to figure the shipping my spear to the mainland ,I'm steal a bum founded
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I saved the pics of those mains and blew them up. What brand are they? The rear main cap...where the bolt goes through...is a mess. Are the chamfers at the correct angle...cuz I've seen this before. A competent machinist after doing an align bore/hone will remove the caps...retorqu e them...and check them at 12, 3. 6 and 9 o'clock with an elongated dial indicator. I'd be curious to know what the size of the two inner mains are...right now. Oh...and those caps...may not be a high quality steel...seen it before.
You shifting at 5800 RPM...or seeing that at the traps? Put the transmission in D...and let it do it's thing.
If you don't thoroughly understand Erics 6.1 setup...then you'd be better off with his 5.7 chip.
If your completely honest with Eric with your build...and your intended max boost...then you should be able to run 22-23 PSI all day long with Erics chip on the default settings and Julios alky kit on his default settings...wit h zero KR.
Post a PL log of one of your runs...and let's see what's going on.
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I noted on the other board your fuel pressure is at 57...where it should be at 64 at 20 PSI. Your voltage is 12.7...should be in the 13's.
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that would be one hell of a lot of detonation. Any time I see steel caps, I always wonder if they were fitted properly as they don't always index properly to the block and the block has to be mated to them caps so they cannot move at all under boost.
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that would be one hell of a lot of detonation. Any time I see steel caps, I always wonder if they were fitted properly as they don't always index properly to the block and the block has to be mated to them caps so they cannot move at all under boost.
Exactly. One of the locals kept taking the mains bearings out of the block shortly after startup. He couldn't figure out why. It had aftermarket main caps. I bought the block...and took it to a machinist from when I apprenticed who has his own machine shop. Sure enuf...the steel caps didn't have the correct angle chamfer. What the other guys machinist did...was torque the main caps down...and align honed it. He degreased the block...and handed it back to the local. The locals machinist never noticed the incorrect chamfer...and never bothered to remove the caps...and retorque...and recheck for size. When I checked the mains for size...the caps 'twisted' in the block...and the mains were 'tight' all over the place. I had my machinist friend machine the correct angle to the caps...and do an align hone. That engine is still in service to this day. And you wonder why I run as much stock junk as possible.
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I told him that i had great re build motor for sale just drop in and go that would be cheaper than having that one sent back to the main land to do all over again, Just trying to help out.
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I told him that i had great re build motor for sale just drop in and go that would be cheaper than having that one sent back to the main land to do all over again, Just trying to help out.
Look at it this way. If you sell your stage engine...then you have a 109 sitting there waiting to go. :)
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278 are you in the islands? thanks Im considering it ,I dont think it was his stag engine at that $ if it was this thread would have stoped
like you said I think it has to be the block ,block machined in Hawaii Im a machinist by trade(not automotive)old school +-.001 kinda guy.
with inside micrometer (i dont own a bore gauge) It measure good. The rear cap what you see is gray RTV,I try to put just a supper thin layer.
Caps came from TA performance ARP studs.The rotating ass is first class stuff from a super guy in the buick world TA looking crank? Oliver I beam rods CP pistons
I just pulled the log back up fuel pressure 57-59 boost 19.5-20.5 yes its a little low but my AFR are staying 10.8 all the way through
The trans is in D, Lonnie as been working with me to get the governor to shift at 5500 1grm at a time we hope this last adj will have it havent had time to try it ,bearing bad and all , trap rpm 5300
I have limited experience with the 6.1 but have read the instructions over and over Eric reburned the chip when I put the champion heads on and he had all the info up front . Car runs so good
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snap shot
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Post pic's of the rod bearing.
I'd think detention would take out the rod bearings 1st. That looks like either the caps are walking or the clearance is to tight on the middle caps.
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Post pic's of the rod bearing.
I'd think detention would take out the rod bearings 1st. That looks like either the caps are walking or the clearance is to tight on the middle caps.
One cannot tell if the caps are fitted properly by trying to move them by hand. The combustion process places hundreds, if not thousands, of pounds more force on them.
I agree, Jeremy, that detonation will take out the rods first and probably break the crank before it destroys the mains. I think the machine shop gets the blame on this one. Of course, they will assure you that they were perfect but we used to see a lot of these before we learned that the factory used a broaching cutter on the block and the aftermarket caps would not fit properly without reworking as Brad described.
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Most guys aren't going fast enuf to require steel main caps...girdle etc. Nothing wrong with going that route...but you'd better find a machinist that knows his shit...or you'll end up with all kinds of issues.
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thanks for all the post,I had time today to take these pic #1 and #4 all look the same but #3 has some slight
damage.My next block will be done by someone that know his $#!t from the mainland.I put it together with .002
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Tim how much will it cost you to send it to the mainland and have it done again?
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$450 -500 both ways and it will weigh more coming back
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450-500 each way not round trip
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Plus the build?
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Looks like that second pic might have hammered the bearing a little. Looks like the trash from the mains went thru them too.
I'd talk with a reputable builder - but it might not be cost effective to continue with your block and caps. It they screwed up the line bore/hone things will just snow ball.
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The problem with align honing is that the cam and crank are brought closer together. Align bore is far superior...in that you can take most of the 'meat' from the cap...and a minimum from the block.
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Yes getting a different block,wish I could find a new block and a TA is way out of my needs , just a bad pic no hammering just trash.
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I have a 4.1 block that was purchase in B/G and the build didn't happen comes with rods and piston. $500.00 plus the ride.
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Arizona gn came through with a 109 and will build me short block ,i chose not to do a stroker