IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: gnonyx on March 27 2021, 12:00:16 AM
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Okay since this is my first time of replacing the rear control arms, is it possible of doing one side only without having the rear end to drip downward?
The procedure I was thinking as follows:
The car is supported on all four floor jacks and the hydraulic jack is supporting the rear end
remove wheel
remove lower control arm, and then remove the shock absorber nut to lower the rear end a bit in order to remove the spring.
Once the spring is remove this will give me better access to remove the upper control arm while all of the passenger side control arms and spring are still intact.
Would this sounds okay, you is there something that needs to corrected?
Thanks
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Correct, do one at a time. It's been a few years, but, I don't think I pulled the springs. It can be a bit hard to see the front bolt on the upper arms, but, if you slide under the car with your head being to the front of the car, you can clearly see the bolt and it's not hard to get wrenches on it. So, I suggest before pulling the spring, slide under and see if you see the bolt and it's as clear as I recall
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With the body on jacks and rear end supported with a floor jack. Disconnect the shocks and lower. The spring should just fall out unless they are after market load levelers. Remove them or they will find your head and it hurts. The hardest problem is removing the upper bushings from the rear end housing. You will need a press or I find it easier cutting it out with a sawzall. Some upper arms come without the housing bushings so check what you ordered.
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Correct, do one at a time. It's been a few years, but, I don't think I pulled the springs. It can be a bit hard to see the front bolt on the upper arms, but, if you slide under the car with your head being to the front of the car, you can clearly see the bolt and it's not hard to get wrenches on it. So, I suggest before pulling the spring, slide under and see if you see the bolt and it's as clear as I recall
Yes, you are right the upper control arm bolt might probably harder to remove since it looks like the bolt is inside a half of frame channel. This is why I was thinking of removing the lower nut of the shock absorber, lower the rear end until the spring falls out while watching out I don't stretched out the brake flex hose. once the spring is out then I reconnect the shock back to hold the rear end for support.
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With the body on jacks and rear end supported with a floor jack. Disconnect the shocks and lower. The spring should just fall out unless they are after market load levelers. Remove them or they will find your head and it hurts. The hardest problem is removing the upper bushings from the rear end housing. You will need a press or I find it easier cutting it out with a sawzall. Some upper arms come without the housing bushings so check what you ordered.
I was thinking once I get to the upper control arm I might this tool instead of dealing with a small area of any type of sawing
https://www.hrpartsandstuff.com/products/tools/controlarmbushingtool.htm
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Tool works most of the time but many are stubborn and need sawzall or impact chisel. If your car spent most of the time garaged and didn't see much bad weather then above tool should work
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The front upper bolt was not difficult to remove at all for me once I actually saw it. As I said, I am pretty sure I left the spring in but once you are in position under the car, you will see if it is in the way. I hate the upper shock mount bolts more than anything.
I have that tool, but you can make your own using a strong bolt a socket of the right size and some hd washers.
If you are putting the stock arms back on, the worse part of the job, imo, is getting the old bushings out without crushing the ears on the bars in-particularly if you arms have not been boxed.
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The front upper bolt was not difficult to remove at all for me once I actually saw it. As I said, I am pretty sure I left the spring in but once you are in position under the car, you will see if it is in the way. I hate the upper shock mount bolts more than anything.
I have that tool, but you can make your own using a strong bolt a socket of the right size and some hd washers.
If you are putting the stock arms back on, the worse part of the job, imo, is getting the old bushings out without crushing the ears on the bars in-particularly if you arms have not been boxed.
Years ago when I replaced the upper A Fame bushings, I made a tool like the one you just mention, but I was hard to do without a vise to hold in place. During that time I did the work outside and finished in time before it started to get dark since I place the car in the garage.
I did bought the ball joint tool kit as I mention before of doing the both lower A Frame balls and both bushings.
I'm wondering if the tool would also work with the upper control rear end ears.
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might. it has to have a "socket" larger than the bushing that will fit on one side and one a hair smaller than the bushing hole in the ear to press against the shoulder of the bushing and pull it thru.
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A couple months ago I received the HRpartsnStuff upper box non adjustable rear arms with his special axle ear bushings but I'm getting to old to do this stuff on my back. Once those are in, the suspension is complete front and back. Its so much easier on a lift might I add. Good luck gnonyx.
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A couple months ago I received the HRpartsnStuff upper box non adjustable rear arms with his special axle ear bushings but I'm getting to old to do this stuff on my back. Once those are in, the suspension is complete front and back. Its so much easier on a lift might I add. Good luck gnonyx.
Thanks, I'm going to need all the luck when dealing with these cars.
I already replaced the all of the original front end stuffs; and I'll say it again, I don't like working with the front coil springs, compressing with that much tension is still dangerous. At least the rear coil springs should be easier
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(https://i.postimg.cc/Cdj4nr51/IMG-20210327-194911.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Cdj4nr51)
I bought these to see about swapping them on . I have the hr parts bushing tool but will have to dig that up. Went ahead and bought some longer studs to be kinda legal with the prostar wheels I want to run.
(https://i.postimg.cc/87Cd31HJ/IMG-20210327-194918.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/87Cd31HJ)
Not sure if these 2.5" long units will work or I will need some 3" ones.
I would say, make sure you have the vehicle supported so it doesn't come down when you are under there pushing and pulling stuff.
What are you going to use for replacement bushings?
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(https://i.postimg.cc/Cdj4nr51/IMG-20210327-194911.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Cdj4nr51)
I bought these to see about swapping them on . I have the hr parts bushing tool but will have to dig that up. Went ahead and bought some longer studs to be kinda legal with the prostar wheels I want to run.
(https://i.postimg.cc/87Cd31HJ/IMG-20210327-194918.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/87Cd31HJ)
Not sure if these 2.5" long units will work or I will need some 3" ones.
I would say, make sure you have the vehicle supported so it doesn't come down when you are under there pushing and pulling stuff.
What are you going to use for replacement bushings?
I'm going to replace with the original Moog K6178 bushings on both lower's and uppers
As you can see in the pictures, I have front ramps, floor jacks at rear, and also floor jack underneath rear end axle.
I do have a question, How do you remove the driver side upper control arm bolt? What a PIA of trying to get at it never mind trying to remove it.
I already removed the lower arm and also the spring in order to give me more more for the upper removal
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Disconnect the shocks and let the rear end droop more, like close to full extension. Right now it's just up in your way.
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I will see if I can see it on my car that is on the lift tomorrow. I don't think I removed shocks or springs. I just put a jack under the rear end after I jacked the car off the ground to keep it in place while changing the control arms.
these instructions are exactly the way I did it. I had no problem get wrenches or sockets on the nuts. Mine were not rusted hard and maybe that was the reason it was easy for me.
https://static.speedwaymotors.com/pdf/1853025B.pdf
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Disconnect the shocks and let the rear end droop more, like close to full extension. Right now it's just up in your way.
Right now I'm doing the driver side and have the lower control arm, and coil spring off. I have the pass, side still connected to prevent the axle from turning.
When you say disconnected the shocks to let the rear end droop, are claiming both shocks or just the side I'm working on?
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the pics you posted are scary and setup for failure.
follow Steves instructions.
you should not have had to remove anything but one control arm at a time.
the rear twisting is one thing but it can move away from you also if you dont leave 1 arm connected.
*****jack stands go under frame before the rear wheel then you use a floor jack on the side your working on to relieve tension or under the pumpkin. if you dont do this then the body is not supported and the body can ...well you know
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ook at the pictures. see the socket I stuck on the end of the bolt head?
There is nothing obstructing your access. I find it easier to lay on the floor and remove it because my back starts to ache and my legs go numb when standing very long. I also find it easier to see the bolt from that position. Put a breaker bar on the socket if you need more leverage to break it loose. As the pictures show, you have plenty of clearance to get to it.
The bolt head is not very tall so I would use a six point socket and make sure it is on square in order to not round it off.
the nut on the other end of the bolt is a bit harder to see particularly on the driver's side but a socket will go over it.
Instructions are on page 3D2-2 of the manual.
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the pics you posted are scary and setup for failure.
follow Steves instructions.
you should not have had to remove anything but one control arm at a time.
the rear twisting is one thing but it can move away from you also if you dont leave 1 arm connected.
*****jack stands go under frame before the rear wheel then you use a floor jack on the side your working on to relieve tension or under the pumpkin. if you don't do this then the body is not supported and the body can ...well you know
The orange floor jack is place before the rear wheels; the other white color floor jack is only supporting the axel, and the red floor jack is placed underneath the center hub axel.
As I mention before I'm only doing one side, driver side.
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ook at the pictures. see the socket I stuck on the end of the bolt head?
There is nothing obstructing your access. I find it easier to lay on the floor and remove it because my back starts to ache and my legs go numb when standing very long. I also find it easier to see the bolt from that position. Put a breaker bar on the socket if you need more leverage to break it loose. As the pictures show, you have plenty of clearance to get to it.
The bolt head is not very tall so I would use a six point socket and make sure it is on square in order to not round it off.
Thanks for the picture Steve, but my problem is not the bolt it's the nut, which is behind the body frame and it feels like the whole bolt is in an angle close to the body itself. Give me a while and I'll try to take another picture in a better angle if I can.
Right now I'm in the process of removing the old lower control arm bushings, and I was thinking once I installed new bushing I was going to place the lower arm back onto the car before removing the uppers. What do you think of this procedure?
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Yes, I mentioned the nut when I edited the post. Look at the passenger side as it is easier to see. You might spray it with some rust buster or such to clean the dirt off it.
Only do one arm at a time. As I said, I slide under the car on my back with my head aimed at the front of the car. I find it much easier to see everything from that angle.
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the only real obstruction is the e brake cable and the rubber protector over it. You can push it up or pull it down, whichever gives you the best view. On this particular car, the mufflers kinda block a straight view.
I suspect, I blew the dirt off and slipped a box end over the nut and then loosened from the side aimed toward the spring. Looks like if one is patient, he can slip a socket over it as well. a 3/8's drive probably gives more room to work on the nut.
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the only real obstruction is the e brake cable and the rubber protector over it. You can push it up or pull it down, whichever gives you the best view. On this particular car, the mufflers kinda block a straight view.
I suspect, I blew the dirt off and slipped a box end over the nut and then loosened from the side aimed toward the spring. Looks like if one is patient, he can slip a socket over it as well. a 3/8's drive probably gives more room to work on the nut.
Well Steve, I finally got the upper control arm nut off, and I did by using a Craftsman wrench that is works like a socket, but has an open end. The pictures shows that tool, and trust me that tool has save me a lot of time, and also provided me with more accessible than other socket tools.
Yesterday I soak the lower arm bushing with penetrating fluid, and also place the replacement bushings in the freezer.
Today I used the ball joint tool and the bushing came out without any issue, and installing the new bushing went in like slicing butter.
I already installed the lower control arm back on the car, but didn't tighten them.
I read the PDF file you sent to me, (Thank You) but would the arm installed give me any issue with removing the upper?
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No, it only aids in keeping the rear axle from moving around and making it hard to line stuff up.
Be sure the weight of the car is on the tires before tightening the bushings down.
and, yeah, that style socket comes in handy when there is limited room for a deeper socket
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No, it only aids in keeping the rear axle from moving around and making it hard to line stuff up.
Be sure the weight of the car is on the tires before tightening the bushings down.
and, yeah, that style socket comes in handy when there is limited room for a deeper socket
Tomorrow will be taking the wife to the doctor and it's going rain heavy so I will remove the upper on Thursday. The car is in the garage, but I need to open the garage door in order to raise the rear end up.
Will keep in touch, and Thanks Again
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So I finally got the driver side upper, lower and new spring installed, but not tighten to torque spec.
Now working on the pass. side close to the garage wall, and it's enough for my 5'11" 250 lb. body to squeeze between the car and wall, and I work on the pass. side before eating. :013:
I had a very hard time trying to remove the lower control arm bolt that is behind the drum brake. It took me about couple of hours just of trying to remove that bolt, and I finally got it out.
What is strange is all upper, and lower bolts were it good condition, except the one that was hard getting out. This bolt looks like it was deformed and not by rust, and the bottom line I need to get a replacement bolt.
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I usually was good at squeezing into tight places, but, as I got older, squeezing out of those places got a lot harder LOL
Be sure you get a good quality grade 8 bolt to replace the rusted up one! Sounds like you are making good progress once you figured out what wrench you needed. I think that is one of the secrets to being a successful mechanic-knowing what wrench will work. Snap-On has made a fortune out of coming up with the special wrench you need to do a job. That double swivel spark plug wrench I bought about 15 years ago replaced the four wrenches I used to change the plugs on regals. Number 5 is still hard after I installed the Champion valve covers which are taller after I put roller rockers on it when we changed the heads a couple of years ago.
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I usually was good at squeezing into tight places, but, as I got older, squeezing out of those places got a lot harder LOL
Be sure you get a good quality grade 8 bolt to replace the rusted up one! Sounds like you are making good progress once you figured out what wrench you needed. I think that is one of the secrets to being a successful mechanic-knowing what wrench will work. Snap-On has made a fortune out of coming up with the special wrench you need to do a job. That double swivel spark plug wrench I bought about 15 years ago replaced the four wrenches I used to change the plugs on regals. Number 5 is still hard after I installed the Champion valve covers which are taller after I put roller rockers on it when we changed the heads a couple of years ago.
I'm a bit younger than you and squeezing out of those places is already harder to get out but it's easier to slide in.
The pass. side lower control arm bolt was a pain, and I found the only way to remove the bolt was to remove the drum brake adjustment knock out plug and used a flat bar and bang the shit out of it.
I already found a good used bolt with flat washer, just waiting for USPS delivery.
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Today I received my replacement bolt and I will remove the rear upper control arm; remove, and install new bushings, and new rear springs as well.
The only problem is I read two different torque spec., so which one is correct?
FRONT:
* Front Upper A-arm bolts = 45ft lbs
* Front Lower A-arm bolts = 65ft lbs
* Ball Joint to Spindle = 65ft lbs
* Lower Ball Joint = 90ft lbs
* Sway bar end links = 40ft lbs
REAR:
* Upper & Lower Control arm bolts = 75ft lbs
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Today I received my replacement bolt and I will remove the rear upper control arm; remove, and install new bushings, and new rear springs as well.
The only problem is I read two different torque spec., so which one is correct?
FRONT:
* Front Upper A-arm bolts = 45ft lbs
* Front Lower A-arm bolts = 65ft lbs
* Ball Joint to Spindle = 65ft lbs
* Lower Ball Joint = 90ft lbs
* Sway bar end links = 40ft lbs
REAR:
* Upper & Lower Control arm bolts = 75ft lbs
Okay ever mind I found it.
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When it doubt, go by the shop manual...excep t when it comes to the intake manifold LOL
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When it doubt, go by the shop manual...excep t when it comes to the intake manifold LOL
Hi Steve, Is there something about the intake manifold that is different than what TR mechanics uses?
Also you weren't kidding about removing the upper control arm bolt that is behind the brake line, what a PIA trying to remove the nut. The Driver side was okay even with the brake line in the way, but the pass. side there is a fat round rubber tubing that covers the brake line and in the way of removing the nut or even trying to put a wrench; and yes I finally removed the nut.
Now the fun part comes when torqueing all bolts and nuts to specs, with all wheels on ground. This part is where a garage lift high in the air comes in handy.
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I stuck something behind the rubber protector and held the line out a bit as I recall. The key to working on cars is to not let the car overstress you. It often requires a little zen LOL
The manual lists 45 lb-ft. That is a lot of torque on a 3/8" bolt and it is common for either the bolt to break or to strip the threads if going for the full 45 listed.
The factory used 25 to 40. I see most people use 32 these days from the various posts. I always aimed for 30 altho to be honest, I seldom try to use a torque wrench because a number of the bolts are hard to get to. I use a box end and aim for what feels like 30 to me. It does not take much pressure to compress the gasket enuf to seal. Things like the rear end and suspension, I do the same. Larger bolts take a little more pull than small.
I use a torque wrench on oil pan bolts, transmission pan bolts, head bolts, rocker arms, etc where things are either easier to break or absolutely critical to prevent leaks and so on.
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To add to what Steve said. Torque values were based on hardware made years ago. The garbage around today regardless of grade will fail if over tightened. If the original hardware is still good, clean it up and use it. Much better then what came with the new parts.
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Hi All,
Finally I'm in the last process of replacing the rear end both upper and lower bushings, and now I have to place all 4 wheels on the car rams as if was on normal ground in order to tighten the bolts to 70#.
Can someone tell me what is the toque for the rear swaybar bolts?
Thanks
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Manual says 35 ftlbs
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Manual says 35 ftlbs
Thanks Steve, I finally going to finish with the rear end bushings, as I was going to be done with it, but one of the upper bolt was tight, and the worst happen, the socket slip and my right hand knuckles got smashed really bad to the point I though I broke my knuckles. :013: :093:
I did wore gloves, but they were light since I had to get my hands in a tight space on the upper bushing nuts
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That hurts ñ
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Hi Steve, GOOD NEWS
I finally finished with the front and rear ball joints, upper, lower bushings, and both all coil springs replacement.
The last thing I want to do is to replace the rear end axle fluids, and I save ALL OF MY KNUCKLES :rock:
Thanks again for all of your help, I really do appreciate it.
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You are welcome! You put in a lot of work!
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You are welcome! You put in a lot of work!
Hi Steve, I have another question for you
I read there are many type of rear axle GM fluids as I did found out the Limited Slip Axle Fluid # 1052358 or as now
10-4003 - 4oz.
The Axle Lubricant fluid is 4.25 pt., but the old GM#1052271 is now GM ACDelco 80W-90 GL5 Axle Gear Oil #89021669 or is it ACDelco 10-4099 75W-90 Gear Oil #88861719
Thanks
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I doubt it makes a difference.
Me, I would go to the parts store and buy Valvoline 75-90 or any other name brand. I think some may come with the limited slip already in the oil..so I would read the bottle and be sure it does not include the additive, or if you see one that does have it, then don't add anymore to the mix....
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I doubt it makes a difference.
Me, I would go to the parts store and buy Valvoline 75-90 or any other name brand. I think some may come with the limited slip already in the oil..so I would read the bottle and be sure it does not include the additive, or if you see one that does have it, then don't add anymore to the mix....
Thanks Steve, I found the Valvoline 75-90 with slip additive added