IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Forzfed on August 06 2018, 11:15:04 PM
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I'm currently running some Delco 43's while I break in the 4.1 but I would like to change plugs. Thinking of autolite. What do you guys think or run?
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I like the Autolite R23s or the ngks
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CR43TS
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I've been done with Delcos for a few years now. They aren't the blue chip standard anymore (much like the oil filters).
NGKs for me all the way. With my experience with motorcycles and my racebikes, I'm amazed I didn't make the change eons ago.
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Ngk
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I use Autolite 23's gapped to 0.035". This is also with a hot wired CCCI. Good so far to 23 psig and methanol.
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For most applications any brand will do. The problem is all brands are counterfeited also. Don't by from ebay, amazon, walmart. Go to a real auto parts store and pay the price. Cheaper in the long run.
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For most applications any brand will do. The problem is all brands are counterfeited also. Don't by from ebay, amazon, walmart. Go to a real auto parts star and pay the price. Cheaper in the long run.
Agreed. I go right to the dealer to buy mine.
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Are there some out there who can actually tell the difference in the plugs? NGK? I've never heard of them. I'm thinking I want to change out plugs soon since the new install of the kit.
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I’ll be damned if I’m going to pay nearly $3 a plug at some chain parts store, when I can get them from rock auto for nearly half the price.
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plus shipping
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Are there some out there who can actually tell the difference in the plugs? NGK? I've never heard of them. I'm thinking I want to change out plugs soon since the new install of the kit.
NGK are Japanese plugs and they seem to be consistently better built. Everything else seems to come from China these days
I would say that the more boost you run, the more likely you are to see a difference in plugs. I find that NGK and Autolite racing plugs (AR23) are consistently better than the AC's these day.
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Yes - but I order 40 or more at a time. They are cheap and don't go bad sitting in a box on the shelf. As long as you don't forget you have them!
Brad put some 42s in that thing and put the screws to it!
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I would have to be reincarnated to ever use 40 plugs LOL
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Most people don’t look at them. On the bottle I was always putting in fresh, making a hit and checking them. It’s good when the data and plugs are telling you the same thing. I’ll probably be reading them on the turbo setup too.
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I used to do the autolite and ac but the ngk are just as cheap with a solid track record for me. I've been getting them off eBay eight at a time. I'm going to look onto the rockauto again, last time the shipping put them over the eBay ones. If the ones in getting are fakes/copies I can't tell a difference. Must be good copies.
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NGK for the win
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NGKs here to :cool;
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Ok let’s see where this leads UR5 or YR5 NKG
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and why 5 instead of the colder 6?
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Another good question why would a cooler plug be needed.
“Conversely, a cold spark plug has a shorter insulator nose and absorbs more combustion chamber heat. ... A colder heat range is necessary when the engine is modified for performance, subjected to heavy loads, or is run at high rpms for a significant period of time.”
How effective would they be on a 3.8?
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iron heads UR5s worked for us. :cool;
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Another good question why would a cooler plug be needed.
“Conversely, a cold spark plug has a shorter insulator nose and absorbs more combustion chamber heat. ... A colder heat range is necessary when the engine is modified for performance, subjected to heavy loads, or is run at high rpms for a significant period of time.”
How effective would they be on a 3.8?
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From the beginning, we have been told that we need colder plugs to prevent detonation so we went one or two steps colder than the factory. We were also told that the CR42, which is the commercial plug with heavier electrodes, is less likely to cause detonation,
First, detonation is auto-combustion of the end gases away from the flame front. Therefore, the plug is not the cause of detonation. If anything, it might be the hot spot that causes preignition which is entirely different and far more destructive. Preignition does not normally occur on our engines due to the shorter timing. It might be a bigger fear on E85 if we run enough timing. Preignition is more of a fear on methanol fueled race cars that run too much timing. Does this carry over to ethanol fueled cars? I have no idea.
I often wonder if spark plug induced detonation is really a common or significant problem on our cars. Coincidentally, I wonder if the use of cold plugs increases the need for tighter plugs gaps as we go to very rich fuel mixtures in the quest for higher boosts and more power.
Is a minor change in spark plug heat ratings more a myth when it comes to safety in performance?
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I went ur5. I think I did a .027 gap, been in there a few months. Tighter seemed to work better. I think I had em at .032 or .035. Tightened it up and it seemed to run better. Gotta get that powerlogger hooked up one of these days.
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Yes - but I order 40 or more at a time. They are cheap and don't go bad sitting in a box on the shelf. As long as you don't forget you have them!
Brad put some 42s in that thing and put the screws to it!
Tried a set of 42's a few years back and it idled like crap...prolly to cold to fire. I've tested the 43's to 28 PSI and the plug has looked fine. The AC's...from the dealer...have worked fine for me.
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Yes - but I order 40 or more at a time. They are cheap and don't go bad sitting in a box on the shelf. As long as you don't forget you have them!
Brad put some 42s in that thing and put the screws to it!
Tried a set of 42's a few years back and it idled like crap...prolly to cold to fire. I've tested the 43's to 28 PSI and the plug has looked fine. The AC's...from the dealer...have worked fine for me.
I wonder what would happen if you closed the gap down to 0.027"? I have never had to go tighter than 0.032" to get a turbobuick to run at high boost. I am obviously not running the cylinder pressures that a nine second car is running but I have run tens on 35 thousandths. I wonder when I read that people have to run such tight gaps. Could it be excessively rich A/F's? Could it be too cold a heat range? Could it be an ignition system that is defective or dying? Probably all of the above...
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I've got 'em cranked down to a tight .030. My logic...and it's prolly flawed...is that it takes less energy to jump the gap...and less chance of a misfire. Having said that...maybe a wider gap would produce a longer(bigger) spark and ignite the fuel/air mixture better. That's about as far as my IQ goes...carry on gents.
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Your worried about how it idles? I thought you’d be more worried about what it does at wot.
I’ve been told/read that each heat range pulls 100 degrees of heat out of the cylinder. Looking at the how far the heat penetrates the plug I’d have to agree.
Steve, ethanol is very sensitive to pre-ignition but very resistant to detonation.
Light bulb! My car probably liked the colder pull due to all the methanol I was spraying. The with a 43 it sounded like it was making popcorn but wouldn’t register knock, stuck a 42 in it and it would run its ass off.
Ls cars come with tr55, everyone puts a tr6 in them. Br7ef for 100-150shot/boost, and br7e8 for more spray/boost.
I dyno’d my Firebird and raced it n/a with br8ef and it didn’t care.
I always laugh when I here someone ask the parts guy for a hotter plug for their modified sbc
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:icon_eyes: :icon_eyes: :icon_eyes: :rofl: :rofl:
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Alcohol is hard to ignite. As long as you keep it on the rich side it's not too sensitive to pre ignition. Otherwise, af is not critical
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Spark plug heat range has nothing to do with coolant temp, head temp, or cylinder temp.
It's just a description of how thermally coupled/decoupled it is from the 'cold' cylinder head. A hotter plug has an electrode that's hanging out like a big ass heat absorbing heat sink. A 'cold' plug has a very short projection. It's just a description of the physical layout.
(http://www.grumpysperformance.com/ngkheat.jpg)
The only reason the adjustability is there is to fine tune around the exact engine and usage. Too cold, and the plug can't get got enough to burn off the carbon. Carbon is conductive, so as soon as a path from the center electrode hits ground, the plug is shorted and can't fire. Too hot, and the spark plug suddenly starts acting like a glow plug. Also not good.
The window is pretty wide between those two extremes. Since we're hotrodders and push our engines to around double the factory HP, the window gets narrower (and spark plug QC becomes much much more important).
(http://dsportmag.com/word/wp-content/uploads/spark-plug-tech-142-010.jpg)
Picking out the heat range is easy. Put in a new set of plugs, kick the shit out of it, pull the plugs and look at the first few threads. You only want a couple of threads looking dull and 'burnt'. If 6 or 7 threads are obviously color changed from heat, you need a colder plug.
(http://www.grumpysperformance.com/plugsread2.jpg)
There should be a color change band right in the curve of the side electrode. That show timing, but this thread doesn't pertain to timing....
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43's worked fine from idle to 28 PSI. I have a friend that wrenches on a Super Stock car. Think it runs 9's and is NA. On back to back dyno runs changing the gap made no difference in HP.
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http://www.ngksparkplugs.ca/tech-info-spark-plugs.cfm (http://www.ngksparkplugs.ca/tech-info-spark-plugs.cfm)
Plugs remove heat from combustion chambers...... or so says ngk.
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A wide gap seems to improve idle and increase plug life on longer cammed, rich idle car and reduces plug fouling. Multi-spark ignition does the same thing. Better burn, better emissions.
All these high voltage, plasma, or whatever ignitions seem to do nothing for hp as long as the spark is adequate to light the mixture.
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Yep. It's a binary thing. The plug either lights off the mixture correctly, or it doesn't.
If you're already lighting it off correctly, you can't light it off 'even more correctly' and see a HP gain.
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Looks like NGK UR-5s are the choice by far
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Good reading material, I'm starting to get ready for my spring time oil change & see what's up with the plugs. I think I have some Delco & maybe some NGK from years ago but I don't know for sure. I'm also going to try the Restore Oil Additive for before & after compression numbers. I'll start a new thread when I'm done but work hasn't slowed down during this Virus so it may take a while.
Cheers & Happy Hot Rodding! :cheers:
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I have ran the autolite 25 heat range and life was good. I did try a set of NGK UR-5 ran good but the heat rang just a tad bit cold. Nothing to worry about, found that the Autolite 24 is in between the UR4 and 5 the Ur 4 is the NGK plug for our Buick. I hope the 24 it’s a good fit. My 25 wasn’t really to hot but it wouldn’t hurt if it was a little cooler
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From autolite, I like the 23 and the 23 racing. Seems to work well with all boosts. I always thought the NGK UR5 was good, but, but the 4 is even warmer.
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CR 43 TS from your friendly GM dealer.
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After the winter car cover came off I started the car to get oil pressure but only ran it a minute so engine was cold when testing.
I pulled all plugs out & did my compression check & this is what I got. I'm going to check them again so I'm sure of the numbers now that I've been for a drive. After that I'll add the Restore & see what happens.
#1 145 #2 155
#3 145 #4 145
#5 145 #6 155
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that will be interesting! those numbers are not bad at all
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David, you've changed.
I'm sure there was a time when you would have yanked that engine out for a 10lb spread! :) :)
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Good numbers.
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Steve you know me too well :D it's actually been on my mind since the engine is over 10 years old now & has a few of the typical leaks & it's pretty dirty. My back is feeling half decent so I figure it might be a now or never kind of thing? Probably take me a couple months & my only concern is getting the trans back in with motor installed. Mike login "TType White?? with the White T that runs 9's or 8's? was always my go to guy to come over & muscle it in but we haven't spoken since the last install. Maybe one of the younger guys wants to make some $$ to take the family out for dinner? What to do what to do? :chin:
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Pay my gas and beer. I'll give ya' a hand on the re and re.
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I'm also curious as to why the 2 cylinders read higher? Maybe they will change after a few good miles on the freeway.
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Brad thanks for the offer & if I do yank the motor & trans out I will definitely get a hold of you. Once the 4 bolts are in the rest is easy it's all done with braided hoses. :cheers:
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If you haven't got my number, shoot me a PM. There's prolly gonna be days that I have to stay here when the garage is being built.
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I'm still tossing a coin to make a decision so it will be a while but good luck on the garage. :cheers:
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Currently being held up with permits and red tape.
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I'm hearing Mikey charges a pretty coin nowadays, I bet Scoob would be much more reasonable :)