IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: earlbrown on March 30 2016, 05:13:47 PM
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I finally got everything sorted out with logistics and pricing with my piston manufacturers.
What I've done is create a better Buick Street/Strip piston that's every been available. After going through heroics to make my 4.1 have 8.99:1 just to find out what total shit hpyers are, I ended up creating something cool.
6 pistons with locks and JE pins are $550. (they can be sold in any number if you want a 7th for the shelf, or burn just one and need a replacement).
(http://]http://www.turbobuick.com/attachments/photo0942-jpg.276652/?temp_hash=5ef2d8d20de36958031b99b46ef9aae8
These are lightweight box forgings that have been machined to work in virtually ANY Buick V6 build. With a 22CC inverted dome it's possible to achieve decent compression with any bore size from 3.801" all the way up to the biggest 4.1 build. My piston engineer ended up having experience with Buick V6 NECKCAR and Kenny Duttweilers drag stuf back when he was head enginer with JE. Needless to say I let him setup the exact shape of the inverted dome's walls. He and I were on the same page as far as capturing the flame kernel for maximum efficiency and minimizing the amount of ignition advance as much as possible. I'm pretty happy with how these came out.
There's a few people already running them for a while now and It's what I have in my GN as well.
The really cool thing about these is how easy they are to modify. I can change the bore, ring pack and compression height with no change in price. The pins can be set up floating or press fit so they'll work with stock or aftermarket rods. For guys running BBC rods or SBC rods, I can put those pins in with a slight bump in price and make it a 'bolt it' job.
That also works good for guys that are just now building virgin engines. Rather than pay to bore it out, I can make them 2 or 5 over then all it takes is a hone job and a set of file fit rings. Plus I can move the piston up the bore instead of decking the block and making it thinner. The savings on the bore and deck job will pretty much pay for the pistons.
[img alt=[IMG]]http://www.turbobuick.com/attachments/photo0941-jpg.276651/?temp_hash=5ef2d8d20de36958031b99b46ef9aae8
These things are truly what the Buick community needed many many years ago. I wish they'd been available before I decked the hell out of my block, Then had to machine my intake... TWICE! These would have saved me a lot of trouble when I learned the hard way that 4.1 decks (and older 3.8's) are taller than 109 3.8s. I finally got everything sorted out with logistics and pricing with my piston manufacturers.
What I've done is create a better Buick Street/Strip piston that's every been available. After going through heroics to make my 4.1 have 8.99:1 just to find out what total shit hpyers are, I ended up creating something cool.
6 pistons with locks and JE pins are $550. (they can be sold in any number if you want a 7th for the shelf, or burn just one and need a replacement).
[img width=800 height=446]http://www.turbobuick.com/attachments/photo0942-jpg.276652/?temp_hash=5ef2d8d20de36958031b99b46ef9aae8)
These are lightweight box forgings that have been machined to work in virtually ANY Buick V6 build. With a 22CC inverted dome it's possible to achieve decent compression with any bore size from 3.801" all the way up to the biggest 4.1 build. My piston engineer ended up having experience with Buick V6 NECKCAR and Kenny Duttweilers drag stuf back when he was head enginer with JE. Needless to say I let him setup the exact shape of the inverted dome's walls. He and I were on the same page as far as capturing the flame kernel for maximum efficiency and minimizing the amount of ignition advance as much as possible. I'm pretty happy with how these came out.
There's a few people already running them for a while now and It's what I have in my GN as well.
The really cool thing about these is how easy they are to modify. I can change the bore, ring pack and compression height with no change in price. The pins can be set up floating or press fit so they'll work with stock or aftermarket rods. For guys running BBC rods or SBC rods, I can put those pins in with a slight bump in price and make it a 'bolt it' job.
That also works good for guys that are just now building virgin engines. Rather than pay to bore it out, I can make them 2 or 5 over then all it takes is a hone job and a set of file fit rings. Plus I can move the piston up the bore instead of decking the block and making it thinner. The savings on the bore and deck job will pretty much pay for the pistons.
(http://www.turbobuick.com/attachments/photo0941-jpg.276651/?temp_hash=5ef2d8d20de36958031b99b46ef9aae8)
These things are truly what the Buick community needed many many years ago. I wish they'd been available before I decked the hell out of my block, Then had to machine my intake... TWICE! These would have saved me a lot of trouble when I learned the hard way that 4.1 decks (and older 3.8's) are taller than 109 3.8s.I finally got everything sorted out with logistics and pricing with my piston manufacturers.
What I've done is create a better Buick Street/Strip piston that's every been available. After going through heroics to make my 4.1 have 8.99:1 just to find out what total shit hpyers are, I ended up creating something cool.
6 pistons with locks and JE pins are $550. (they can be sold in any number if you want a 7th for the shelf, or burn just one and need a replacement).
(http://www.turbobuick.com/attachments/photo0942-jpg.276652/?temp_hash=5ef2d8d20de36958031b99b46ef9aae8)
These are lightweight box forgings that have been machined to work in virtually ANY Buick V6 build. With a 22CC inverted dome it's possible to achieve decent compression with any bore size from 3.801" all the way up to the biggest 4.1 build. My piston engineer ended up having experience with Buick V6 NECKCAR and Kenny Duttweilers drag stuf back when he was head enginer with JE. Needless to say I let him setup the exact shape of the inverted dome's walls. He and I were on the same page as far as capturing the flame kernel for maximum efficiency and minimizing the amount of ignition advance as much as possible. I'm pretty happy with how these came out.
There's a few people already running them for a while now and It's what I have in my GN as well.
The really cool thing about these is how easy they are to modify. I can change the bore, ring pack and compression height with no change in price. The pins can be set up floating or press fit so they'll work with stock or aftermarket rods. For guys running BBC rods or SBC rods, I can put those pins in with a slight bump in price and make it a 'bolt it' job.
That also works good for guys that are just now building virgin engines. Rather than pay to bore it out, I can make them 2 or 5 over then all it takes is a hone job and a set of file fit rings. Plus I can move the piston up the bore instead of decking the block and making it thinner. The savings on the bore and deck job will pretty much pay for the pistons.
(http://www.turbobuick.com/attachments/photo0941-jpg.276651/?temp_hash=5ef2d8d20de36958031b99b46ef9aae8)
These things are truly what the Buick community needed many many years ago. I wish they'd been available before I decked the hell out of my block, Then had to machine my intake... TWICE! These would have saved me a lot of trouble when I learned the hard way that 4.1 decks (and older 3.8's) are taller than 109 3.8s.
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Will they be available in like a .038 over 455 size(4.350 + .038)? I want the ability to adjust the height so I don't have to take much if any off my 455 block. I will be getting some for the 4.1build but since the 3.8 seems to be going good I've moved over to the v8.
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Very nice Earl! You went AWOL while I was doing my build or I would've worked with you for some Pistons. I ended up with a custom set of CP's with a static CR of 9.28. Completely thankful and grateful you took the time for this endeavor. The buick community appreciates you!
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Beefy!
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Will they be available in like a .038 over 455 size(4.350 + .038)? I want the ability to adjust the height so I don't have to take much if any off my 455 block. I will be getting some for the 4.1build but since the 3.8 seems to be going good I've moved over to the v8.
My range is 2.500" to 5.500" before the price gets increased. I think you're covered :)
I'm not near my catalogs, do you know if the 455 uses .940" pins?
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I'm using a BBC 6.8 or 7.1 inch rod so we will need a .990 pin. Gonna get the crank offset ground to 2.20 and shoot for 470 inches. Just have to see how much the shop needs to take to square up the deck. Then ill know what height ill need with the rod length I choose.
Thanks for the hard work.
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What about valve reliefs Earl? How much clearance do they have now?
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It's Good to see something Positive came out of the Negative situations you went thru.
I hope you sell a bunch of them! :cheers:
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What about valve reliefs Earl? How much clearance do they have now?
Isn't that a weak link? They always break around that area.
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Isn't that a weak link? They always break around that area.
I want a lift over .500 and I want to make sure I don't kiss a piston. :icon_fU:
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I'm using a BBC 6.8 or 7.1 inch rod so we will need a .990 pin. Gonna get the crank offset ground to 2.20 and shoot for 470 inches. Just have to see how much the shop needs to take to square up the deck. Then ill know what height ill need with the rod length I choose.
Thanks for the hard work.
That's where these pistons really shine. When you go to square deck your block, measure all for corners and note the shortest one. (buicks tend to be within a couple thou.. my BBC boat engine, not so much! :) ) Deck that side first and stop just when the last corner starts to get clean and you go past the last water port. Then make the other side match that. Doing it that way instead of stopping at an arbitrary number will leave the most meat on the deck and take less time machining. Take a measurement and and I'll just move the piston up instead of moving the deck down (and having to risk machining the intake)
That's the way I did my boat engine. I square decked it until I was left with just one dirty corner. Then I honed the worst cylinder until it came clean at .009" over. After that I got a set of slugs that would put me .020" in the hose at 9 over. Never even had to touch the boring bar :)
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What about valve reliefs Earl? How much clearance do they have now?
You don't need no stinkin' valve reliefs!! The weaken the piston, screw with the frame front travel speed, and grow carbon! :)
That's one of the reasons I went with a 22cc inverted dome. You don't have to smack the head to make decent compression. You should be fine with .500" lift. I'm running more than that on my 4.2.
That doesn't mean you don't measure though!
Plug your numbers into a static and dynamic compression calc and see how close you have to get to the head to get the desired DCR.
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What about valve reliefs Earl? How much clearance do they have now?
You don't need no stinkin' valve reliefs!! The weaken the piston, screw with the frame front travel speed, and grow carbon! :)
You tell him, Earl!! :rock:
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You should be fine with .500" lift. I'm running more than that on my 4.2.
What's the lift you're running Earl?
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It's late and I've been playing the game of drink....
my cam is a 215/220 roller, I lowered my rocker shafts supports .045", and set my pushrods up as close to mid-lift geometry with the wrong geometry rockers as possible.. I want to say they're .521 lift on the exhaust, but you can't see what's laying next to me in bed right not instead of my notes......
If it matters, she was born after
....well, a LOT of stuff :D
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I am assuming if they are a lightweight alloy, they expand quite a bit more than something like the old TRW forgings? Rattle when cold?
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They're forged so they're going to make a little noise at cold startup. They do require more room than a hyper but .003"ish cold isn't that bad.
That's one of the reasons I avoided using 2618 for the forging.
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that's not bad at all
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I expect to catch some flak for not using the ''better'' 2618 material....
...but we've been making over 100hp a hole for decades now with a stock high mileage cast slug. Stepping up to a forging (and losing weight) is a leaps and bounds improvement no matter the material. I chose less noise and lower price over unnessessary overkill.
The uber badass series bidness slugs 2.0 are in the works with the 2618, but that's going to me more of a racing slug for a ''street'' car in quotes. :)
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I agree with you :)