MAF sensor

[TexasT]

Not really trying to reinvent the wheel but i do spend an inordinate time on research and how things can be done on the cheap. I'm meeting up with Jason later so I had time to kill.
I found this but looked through the full throttle site and don't see where they sell this pipe.
http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/61277-new-4-maf-pipe-built-maf-sensor-2.html

Found these on the amazon so maybe you are suppose to buy the mafless pipe and put it in yourself.
http://www.amazon.com/Spectre-Performance-9924011-Mount-Plate/dp/B00EPYE21A/ref=pd_sim_263_42?ie=UTF8&dpID=31HIWxL5OcL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1YDNN8CNVZNMC0N3BWJK

http://www.amazon.com/Mass-Sensor-Billet-Mount-Flange/dp/B00N2K2QRK/ref=pd_sbs_263_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=31FTw8oKKKL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=0XDA16PN96J4HXC6C6WQ

and I guess just put in one of these.

http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-213-4222-Original-Equipment-Temperature/dp/B0010GDGFY/ref=pd_bxgy_263_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1S9C8793F2DMKPM059FA

or maybe one of these housings

http://www.amazon.com/Spectre-Performance-9705-Polished-Aluminum/dp/B003J9IXT4/ref=pd_sbs_263_3?ie=UTF8&dpID=41ZOj3I9q9L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=0XDA16PN96J4HXC6C6WQ

Then there are these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Auto-BT153X-New-Mass-Air-Flow-Sensor-/251542777752?hash=item3a911e2f98:g:0F8AAOxyoBtTjd t4&vxp=mtr

http://www.amazon.com/Shinehome%C2%AE-25180303-MASS-SENSOR-VEHICLES/dp/B018VSMIXY/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1464191293&sr=8-16&keywords=maf+impala+ss

I'm leaning toward one of these AXIS translator boxes. It seems it wont do all it can without 60lb injectors and a special chip. But can go that route in the future if the eric gets out with a chip good to use the 42lb injectors. Maybe I can get some 60s or the chip will get developed. Just seems like a better thing with more potential for an additional $20. Eric sez the 5.6 chip I have will have its tunability until the new stuff happens.

http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AXIS-1

Any thoughts? TIA

[larrym]

I like the AXIS concept timing control that is not lost when the battery is disconnected have not seen to many reviews yet.

[daveismissing]

I like the idea of a $30 MAF sensor. Do any of the other translators support that sensor? That mighty tell us something.
The axis manual says the pipe is no longer in production.
I'd ask Eric and Mike how well they worked.
I guess at this point you would be an early adopter. Will the product become an orphan? Who knows, it would be useful to know how many have sold.

I guess not as of 2009:
http://turbobuick.com/threads/maf-pipe-with-integrated-maf.295131/#post-2281219

[Scoobum]

The integrated MAF never caught on...for whatever reason. If you wanna run a stock MAF...then the one from Kirbans is the only one that's calibrated correctly for our cars. The ones from Blue Streak etc are a crapshoot...at  best. I recommend Bobs translator cuz it's durable and it flat out works. I haven't heard of any crapping out. The LT1, LS1 and Z06 MAFS can be picked up at the wreckers for a song. The Z06 MAF requires a special 3 to 5 pin connector. Erics 5.6 and 5.7 chips are the same...with the exception of the 5.7 alky chip having aggressive mode.


FWIW I tested the LT1, LS1 and Z06 MAFS on the same day within 90 minutes...with the Z06 showing the leanest 02 reading.

[motorhead]

Who wants me to go off on a rant?

[larrym]

I do i do!

[good2win22]

Let's hear it

[daveismissing]

[TexasT]

Rant away.

So this integrated maf in a pipe is a thing that I would have to see about used or make my own. You can see the links the stuff is out there. From reading it just has to be a 4" tube. Not sure I want to do something like that. Just seems big as I'm running a stock turbo and inlet bell. I guess ill set the sights on the axis thing unless a used regular translator comes along.

Jason hooked me up with a lt1 maf as well as a remanned stock piece. I like the look of the black plastic lt1 maf and found one for cheap on eBay so I might get one of those to see about it.

I will say the int and bl data was much different on our trip back with the remanned maf on the car. We will see if the mileage comes back up. The af at idle was back down to 04 instead of being 07-08.

[gusszgs]

I went LT-1 3" with the 'tried n true' translator and couldn't be happier. I'm using the aluminum body MAF, which I read somewhere is a more reliable unit than the new black plastics ones. Figured I'd stick to the 'KISS' rule when it comes to the MAF.
I think RC did an extensive test on all the MAF's and there really wasn't much to be gained going larger. Please correct me if I'm wrong

[daveismissing]

'Cmon Mikey! Let it out before you explode

[reality]

MAF vs Speed Density.


Go Mikey!!!!!

[motorhead]

Okay here goes... but only because you guys asked for it.  It is important to note that I am not objecting to the goal of this thread which I think is admirable.

My issue is with “translators” and assuming MAFs are relatively universal in all applications which has been going on for decades with Turbo Buicks.  It is for this reason that I set my car to Speed Density and deleted the MAF so many years ago.

MAFs and their calibration are unique to the application – in all instances.  If you change anything that impacts airflow in or out of the engine the MAF calibration is altered.  If you de-screen a MAF the calibration (and accuracy) is changed.  Same goes with an open air filter and size (diameter and length) of the MAF tube.  Yep, cranking the boost up does it too.

How MAFs work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3QuuEPef4k

At no time in the history of these translators has anyone actually scaled a MAF to a given application to get an accurate reading.  The best I can tell is it is all guess work and left to the ECM to “trim” the fueling needs – because close is good enough.

Case in point, and I can provide the data/graphs to prove this, the blade-style MAF sensor mentioned in the original post is used in 7.0L and 6.2L V8s, V6s, and turbo 2.0s.  In each application the calibration is different in order to compensate for mass air flow/consumption and velocity despite being the exact same part.

I would challenge anyone offering a bolt-on MAF solution to provide their justification for the calibration chosen to hand out to the masses under the pretense that it is accurate and better.  Yes, the enhanced range over 255 grams/sec hardcoded limit in the stock Buick MAF is a definite advantage. 

http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/38505-maf-255grams-sec-316-7-hp-true-false.html

But, there is just so much more information that is inaccurate it makes my blood boil.

Properly calibrating a MAF is a bit of a time consuming exercise, requires a WB02 to measure the error between the calibration and the fuel consumed, and will need to be revalidated after every change.

I am not even going to get into the challenges of running a blow-through MAF like my TBSS is using.

[larrym]

Thanks Mike
I was hoping for more fire and brimstone but this was very informative. I have seen the "altered results" my buddy runs a 3.5 inch MAF and had a 3 inch pipe. He decided to swap it out to 4" pipe with the same sensor and a new larger filter. The AFR leaned out and his max boost jumped up a couple pounds. Personally I think his old filter was the biggest restriction.

[TexasT]

Does the maf have some sort of adjustment? You talk of calibrating the maf with the wideband, but I'm not sure how to adjust it. I pretty much want what is cheapest, but i do want it to work, and work long term. I'm running or at least was running the maf that is original to the car.
I dug out the maf that I put on the suburban. It is 3.5" in diameter. The one Jason hooked me up with is 3", both of them the metal housing. I just thought the blank plastic piece looked more stock. I still have to figure out how to mount the temp sensor into the air tube again. I had it in a 3" pvc pipe coupler (apparently I glued it to the maf) and it has been there at least 20 yrs. A buddy gave me some duct he got from atr way back then and I put my k&n cone behind the grille. I think it works good as the ats always was around outside temp. With that sensor hanging loose under the hood it will go to 143 then it starts flashing hot. Found that out yesterday on our way home from the meet while we were inline at Burger Street getting a couple hamburgers. I'll get some pix and add them to this post.

Good info Mike. So it is cost effective to go sd2 and mafless? I had an 89 LX Mustang that was. It ran pretty good. We hot it into the 8.80s on a good night when the eagles would kinda hook. Fun car to row the five speed. It had the 3.08 gears. Blew a head gasket about 40k miles and I traded it in on a 91 Regal Gran Sport, the only front drive car I ever owned.

My behind the grill air intake.


Old original maf.