IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => A/C, Heating and Cooling => Topic started by: 84 BuickGNYorkPA on August 14 2012, 05:05:58 PM
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I don't know if it's because I'm looking at 51 this yr or what but, I'm ready to try and fix the a/c in the gn. 1st thing though is to get the high fan selector on the dash to blow on high. I printed out the trouble shooting from Steve's site, and looks to be the high speed fan relay?? I just got one from NAPA and will give it a try, have my doubts since I bought one in OH at the Auto Zone and it didn't work(but I can't find the reciept to return it here in York). Once I get the high speed fan to work I will go on to step 2 which is install the $20 condensor I picked up at BPG used.
Chuck
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6. Okay, assuming we now have the lower three speeds working, let's see about High speed. When we put the fan speed switch on high, it sends power thru the orange wire to the relay which switches the relay so that voltage now comes from the fusible link to the relay and on to the blower motor. Check the relay to see if there is battery voltage at the relay on the orange wire when the switch is on High. If there is not, follow the orange wire back toward the inner fender and find the connector. 99.9% of the time, this connector is smoked and is no longer making a good connection. Fix it if this is the case and you should have High speed. If you had power at the relay, then check the red wire at the relay which comes from the fusible link to see if it has power. If it does not, replace the fusible link. If it does, change the relay.
Normally, it is the connector on the orange wire.....
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turn the key on, put blower switch on high.
Check for voltage on the orange wire at the relay...if it is there, orange wire is good, if no voltage, fix the connector at the inner fender.
If orange wire is good, then check the red wire at the relay as it comes from the fusible link. If it has voltage,
Change the relay.
If it does not have voltage, fix the fusible link
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Well found a bad connection, the red wire from relay (no power) and the connector at the firewall(has power), while messing with that, not sure what happened, something shorted out, but now have 12 volts at relay with red wire(still want to replace the connector, I just bent the tab) and orange wire(always had 12 volts there). But no fan at all, I think it's the fuse went when the short happened. I will look at it again tomorrow, right now it's raining and my sons B-day is tomorrow. Thanks for the help Steve.
Chuck
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any time...hope your son has a great birthday :)
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Fan motor was bad, I have all the speeds again, ashamed to say how many yrs it's been. Ok probably about 20, who cares anyway?
Condensor is in, just printed out the how to, "R134A Retrofit" from "The Turbo Regal Web Site", looks like I need to replace a few things before I start. A/C Accumulator... the one hose joint moves... thinking hose set...
Going to try and pull a vacuum for shits and giggles right now.... no I never looked at a a/c system before...
Chuck
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20 years goes by fast :D
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Yes they do, bought a a/c gage set and vacuum pump, 4 cans of 134a and 1 can of oil.
I got the gage set out and said, hmm better do some reading.... then put the inner cooler pipes back on and buttoned everything back up. Ready to get a shower and call it a day.
I almost put the fan on upside down but it was idiot proof, wouldn't fit that way, don't tell anyone...
I wonder where I can get a set of a/c line from, I'll wait and see if they will hold a vacuum or not 1st...
Chuck
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I bet I can make it go on upside down!
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On the lines, I plan to take mine to a hose/line shop and get the rubber bits replaced...
I don't think "new" lines are available anymore, and even if they were, how old are they?
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True, I read somewhere that I should just replace the lines, but I keep thinking of Steve's advice, don't throw money at it.... but it's my mental therapy...
Chuck
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Pull a vacuum, and see how long it holds it. You may be just fine!
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I loaded up on freon at Big lots again - $8/can... I will need it when I retrofit both 87's..
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That's what I'll do... after I figure out how to hook it up...
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If you run into trouble, come over to the shop. I'm bored already anyway.
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misery loves company!
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Well not able to hold a vacuum, did replace the receiver/dryer/accumulator and orifice tube, before pulling vacuum. It looked like the car was on a operating table with all the lines hanging from the gages....
So I was thinking back, the compressor is probably toast since there was a jumper wire on the switch so I could adjust the turbo tweak chip a few yrs ago, and I think it was hooked up for a while... :rolleyes;
And while putting the condensor in, the line swiveled at the crimped area that comes off the compressor.
So thinking, new compressor and new lines... thanks for the offer Gary but I haven't looked at the computer all day until now, and I got to get ready for a WWE Summer Slam Party... for Mitchell's get together for his friends to celebrate his 14th birthday.
Hope the evaporator and condenser are leak free..... there must be a way to tell what's leaking...
Chuck
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Local NAPA will make me up a new hose set, haven't talked to them yet.... $225 for a rebuilt compressor :chin:
So I'm thinking get the hoses made up and then see if I can pull a vacuum? Comments, not trying to cheap out, just don't want to throw good money at it. I really have very little idea what I'm doing, if it wouldn't be for the Internet, I would be bending over for a $1k a/c job.
Chuck
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Look for a new compressor for less money
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Look for a new compressor for less money
185.00 free shipping - new at Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-15-20225-A-C-Compressor/dp/B000EQP0KA/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1345516217&sr=1-1&keywords=1520225 (http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-15-20225-A-C-Compressor/dp/B000EQP0KA/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1345516217&sr=1-1&keywords=1520225)
$225 new at Rock Auto
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Ok, new compressor, check. Then pull vacuum or get a new set of hoses made up and change the hoses and compressor together?
I see the good price at amazon shows that it will ship in 1 or 2 months.... ha ha ha hmmmm.
Chuck
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Seems logical to this newb. Most compressors have gone by this point.
worst case-If it doesn't hold vac after that then Gary must have a sniffer or a UV light and grab some cans with dye?
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given that the car has not had a working ac for a long time, I would replace the compressor and the hoses, etc at the same time and refill with oil.
Advance Auto had a 15% off coupon online...don't know what the shipping was. I find they often have some of the best prices of the chains.
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Do not buy a rebuilt compressor - buy new.
Depending on where you buy the compressor, you may need to buy the drier/orifice tube etc at the same time to get a warranty.
As Steve said - since the AC has been down so long, you should replace everything you can get too, ALL orings, seals - and make sure you add the correct amount of oil.
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Don't forget to replace the accumulator.
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Under $200 delivered http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_air-conditioning-compressor-with-clutch--new-tough-one-or-factory-air_20891113-p (http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_air-conditioning-compressor-with-clutch--new-tough-one-or-factory-air_20891113-p)
New hoses found here, http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-SEASONS-55064-A-C-Hose-/290694569874?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1987%7CMake%3ABuick%7CModel%3ARegal%7CSubmodel%3AGrand+National%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.8L&hash=item43aebf1f92&vxp=mtr#ht_1301wt_931 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-SEASONS-55064-A-C-Hose-/290694569874?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1987%7CMake%3ABuick%7CModel%3ARegal%7CSubmodel%3AGrand+National%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.8L&hash=item43aebf1f92&vxp=mtr#ht_1301wt_931)
Gary Accumulator is replaced, and the orfice tube, next pull the compressor and the lines, get the lines over to NAPA to get new ones made up.
Thanks for all the help guys!!!!
Chuck
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Those lines will NOT fit - I ordered them from Amazon, and had to return them, yhey aren't for a turbo car.
They are much cheaper at Amazon too, FWIW.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C2QQ7C/ref=oh_details_o03_s01_i00 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C2QQ7C/ref=oh_details_o03_s01_i00)
from Rock Auto - unless all of these cars came with an LC7 motor. :P
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Thanks, for the warning, I emailed the seller and cancelled the order.... I owe you a beer, if I ever meet you!
Now just hope there's no problem with the ebay cancellation.
So does anyone know who or where I can get a set of lines purchased or special made? I'll keep looking...
Chuck
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Thanks, for the warning, I emailed the seller and cancelled the order.... I owe you a beer, if I ever meet you!
Now just hope there's no problem with the ebay cancellation.
So does anyone know who or where I can get a set of lines purchased or special made? I'll keep looking...
Chuck
I don't think anyone has them new. Didn't you say NAPA was going to rebuild what you have?
I plan to take mine to Amazon Hose here in Tampa and get mine rebuilt.
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http://www.amazonhose.com/products/ac-power-steering-hose-assemblies/ (http://www.amazonhose.com/products/ac-power-steering-hose-assemblies/)
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Thanks, for the warning, I emailed the seller and cancelled the order.... I owe you a beer, if I ever meet you!
Now just hope there's no problem with the ebay cancellation.
So does anyone know who or where I can get a set of lines purchased or special made? I'll keep looking...
Chuck
If he gives you any guff - make sure him, and eBay/Paypal know his page is incorrect, it's not your fault.
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ask at your parts store. Most decent sized towns have a place that makes hoses
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Found these http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=401&osCsid=34df05d50eef8e1eeb451a8aacb85c95 (http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=401&osCsid=34df05d50eef8e1eeb451a8aacb85c95)
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There was a guy here but he's out of business, I'll keep asking around...
ding, ding, ding..
http://www.autorepairpa.com/air-conditioning.html (http://www.autorepairpa.com/air-conditioning.html)
Chuck
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Like I said Chuck, if you need me just ask. My local NAPA makes up hoses from your original fittings. I did Dave's AC last year and he was happy with the results.
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we all get along better with a little help from our friends :)
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Thanks Gary, I'll let you know.
The ebay joint shipped the wrong hoses today :068: they will go right back, I had sent them 2 stop request emails and they still sent them....
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This looks like a good resource for DIY:
http://www.coldhose.com/ (http://www.coldhose.com/)
http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/ac/fittings-and-hose-kits-7.php (http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/ac/fittings-and-hose-kits-7.php)
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Found these http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=401&osCsid=34df05d50eef8e1eeb451a8aacb85c95 (http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=401&osCsid=34df05d50eef8e1eeb451a8aacb85c95)
Like I posted on TB.kom - Unless you are going for a show car look, it's a lot cheaper to get your current lines rebuilt.
Also - even if the ones that hack are selling are "new" - how old are the rubber lines? 20+ years?
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Also...if using 134a, a new barrier hose works better than the original hoses for our cars. Altho, a used hose for our cars should work as well because it should be pretty much plugged up from the old oil as I understand it.
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Update: Ebay vendor was out of the office yesterday, he notified the carrier to return the hoses and has agreed to give me a 100% refund, once they get back to his business.
Compressor is off, lines are at the repair shop, new compressor showed up today, was thinking may be easier to put lines on compressor before installing on car... repair shop said they should have them done by tomorrow.. $65- $80 somewhere in that price range. He also mentioned that the old hose and the 134A are not a good combination... .. kinda what Steve was saying, I believe.
Chuck
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Do you have all new orings, a new orifice tube and R12 > r134a adapters?
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Yes I do...
So now I already put 2 oz of oil in the accumilator, I have to check and see if there is any oil in the new compressor, it came from advanced auto parts. I doubt that it does, if it doesn't do I just put the oil in where the tube manifold hooks up?
Chuck
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If there is any oil in the new compressor, dump it out through the line ports and measure it. The whole system takes 6 oz., you have 2 in the acc., so dump no more than 4 oz in the line ports as you slowly rotate the compressor pulley. Also, now would be a great time to put dye in. I use the small quarter oz. container (part no. 765-2665) from NAPA.
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I doubt it will come with oil. I am not exactly sure of the amounts, but it should be split up between the compressor and drier - some recommend putting a portion in the condenser too.
CharlieF said to make sure that after you add the oil to to compressor, while on the bench, rotate the compressor ~10-20 times to distribute the oil through the inside of the compressor.
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Chuck, I hate to ask, but are you sure the evaporator does not leak? BTW, these cars don't use the regular na regal evaporator. Be a good time to replace the heater core as well but I have not seen one for the turbo cars either.
The bottom pic in this link shows the difference between the two...bottom evaporator is the correct unit http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/heater_core_replacement.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/heater_core_replacement.htm)
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Compressor on it's back(in a few minutes anyway) off to napa for dye.
Thanks a ton guys !!!!!!!!!!!
Chuck
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Well it had oil in it and dye, reading instructions on compressor (after I pour the oil into the old motor oil waste container) it says "This a/c compressor has been pre-filled with PAG Oil. Do not drain. Add the correct type and amount per your system specifications ....
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Steve, I don't know that the evaporator does not leak.....
Chuck
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We have a/c again, thanks Gary for the over the phone help!!
I may have a real a/c tech take a look at everything some day, seems to me it should be colder. Temp got down to 50.1 on the road, temp outside is a humid 77 deg.
I left the vacuum pump on it for 2.5hrs before I charged the system, my oldest son, Travis is very happy with a/c in the car....
Chuck
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Awesome!
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did you turn the pump off to see if it would hold the vacuum?
Sounds good to me....I have never had consistent luck getting below 50 while others do...beats the heck out of no ac!
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Yes I did, at 1st it didn't hold vacuum and I called Gary on his cell. I was bummed out, he said to give it a little charge and I bet you find the leak.... He was right, I didn't have the cut out switch rotated in far enough on the accumulator. I then put a vacuum back on it and waited 10 minutes, they gage didn't budge, so I gave it a charge.
One question though, the water just forms on the pipes between the accumulator and evaporator and drops from there? That part doesn't seem correct... Again, thanks for all the help !!!!
Chuck
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the water that condenses there has no place to go but drip off
Normally, I wait about an hour after stopping the pump to see if the vacuum drops because tiny leaks take awhile to leak enuf to be seen...but, I am guessing you are good to go
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Time will tell, interesting that I used the harbor freight vacuum pump $15, and there gages $55 - 20% from the hot rod magazine coupon. Anyway my air compressor was running the whole time while pulling vacuum and it was a humid day ...... so after 2.5hrs I finally realize that the little bit of moisture that the vacuum pump was still getting was probably from the air compressor supplying moist air....
Chuck
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Glad its working! I've been watching the thread so enjoy the AC because I couldn't own a car without it! Maybe when I was younger? But not now!
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Update: Still blowing cold air !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Chuck is a happy camper, thanks again for all the help everyone, I love the Internet!!!!!!!!!!
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