IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Steve Wood on March 25 2012, 05:13:04 PM
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Got my GN out for the first time in about six months...I guess it has been about that long because the inspection sticker was expired since last September....
I noticed it was trying to change lanes at the top of first gear with a sudden move to the left. I was trying to remember which control arm to preload when the rear of the car moves to the right when it dawned on me that it has been a long time since I changed the passenger side front upper control arm bushing on this car. (the rear bushing on the upper front control arm)
Looked at it and sure enough, it was cracked in several places. Probably take a few more miles before it fell out and the shaft starts to bang around, but, it is cracked enough to affect handling.
Experienced owners probably know to check this periodically as it gets cooked by the downpipe that passes right over it, but, some may not be aware that this is a recurring problem that can adversely affect handling and create a dangerous situation on hard acceleration or braking.
If you have not checked yours recently, it might be a good time to do so.
Some say poly bushings will last longer but I have never liked poly bushings on cars that get driven a lot. Others have put a solid bushing in, or added a heat shield. I have just always replaced them with another conventional bushing. It's not that hard, but, it has been two years since I did the other car so given my foggy memory banks, I guess I will get to figure it out all over again. :)
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One more thing to check on my car this week while I'm off...thanks. Once in 6 months...lay off the Skyrim. You're as bad as Norbs with his damn stocks.
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I have been driving the T, it was behind the GN in the shop...Had to move them both to get the Challenger down to start working on it again....
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Awesome! All the activity in the Woods pole barn has me fired up!
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I have been driving the T, it was behind the GN in the shop...Had to move them both to get the Challenger down to start working on it again....
Excuses excuses. The GN, 4X4, SS...and the gf's Camaro and Cavalier...are all in the driveway. Should see the jockeying that goes on to get the GN out of the garage.
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the jockeying and the gate opening, are too much effort as far as I am concerned..
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the jockeying and the gate opening, are too much effort as far as I am concerned..
You sand my floor...and I`ll move your cars.
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the jockeying and the gate opening, are too much effort as far as I am concerned..
Can't you train one of the goats?
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I could try....they are all metric tho
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the jockeying and the gate opening, are too much effort as far as I am concerned..
You sand my floor...and I`ll move your cars.
go rent the sander and let your girl friend do it
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Oddly enuf she's offered to put the finish on it.
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The cheesy, made from airbag install, leftover heat shield has worked well for me, I get about 75K out of the MOOG problem solver gold annodized rubber bushings on the daily drivers.
That's about 8 years up here in our small state.
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Replace the control arm with speedway motors part number 910-34394LH which has a greasable bronze bushing instead of a rubber one. :rock: Get 2 of them and you have better control arms. :D
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Grease? do we still have to grease cars?
I figure this will be the last Buick arm I shall ever have to do the bushings on so I had already ordered a pair of Moog replacements.
I did try to look up that number to find why I would want to use LH arm on the right hand side, but, it did not come up as a valid number. Thought maybe you bought them all to corner the market
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Grease? do we still have to grease cars?
No shit. Can't figure out how to seal a ball joint for 100k?
I was fucking with 2 cheap-ass grease guns this weekend. Still couldn't get either to work long enough to get all greased (new inner/outer tire rods, pittman arm, center drag link), still have to get back under and get the last one.
I don't often get burned by Harbor Freight parts - this time I did twice.
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I did try to look up that number to find why I would want to use LH arm on the right hand side, but, it did not come up as a valid number. Thought maybe you bought them all to corner the market.
Take the LH off the part number and you can find the arms. The LH one is 8.5" long and the stock one is 8.45" long. You can get them in different legnths and to get the right one you have to order 2 of the same ones. Most of the guys that use these have different ones left and right to help the chasis roll over in a curve so they get better bite. It has to do with the camber curve of the stock chasis on a circle track.
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I love it when both control arm bolts spin when trying to pull the arm off....One of my arms needs to be about two foot longer so I can hold one wrench while reaching over the fender and down to the other end of the bolt...effing cars
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I had that problem the first time I ever did the bushings - SUCKED.
Can you tack weld the bolts or something?
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Think I am going to engineer this way it should have been made when I put it back together....
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Think I am going to engineer this way it should have been made when I put it back together....
Pics and commentary requested, of course. :)
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1. Most elegant way...take a strip of 1/8" steel long enuf to span the two holes, drill holes in proper location, weld bolts to strap....a U-bolt in effect. That way nothing could turn as you undo the nuts, and you can withdraw the strap and bolts to resolve any clearance issues.
2. Or, slightly less elegant. Make two straps about two inches long, drill holes, insert bolts and weld. Straps would be long enuf to prevent turning very far before locking up....removes need for precision measuring.
3. Or, weld the bolts to the frame....very easy, but, might make clearance issues with the downpipe when removing...hav e not checked that.
4. Or, call my neighbor to come over for five minutes and hold one end while I tighten the other...being I may never do this again, this is probably the easiest solution :D
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Easiest way it to pop the ball joint and take the upper arm to the work bench.
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well, yeah
But first, you have to get the two nuts off the bolts that hold the shaft to the frame...otherw ise it is hard to get the control arm to the bench :D
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You could bring the bench to the control arm. :D
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When Mohammed gets his mountain to come to him, he can start trying to teach my work bench to come!
Once I changed the rear pushing by leaving the arm on the car and knocking it out with an air hammer and blunt chisel. Managed to draw the new bushing in somehow...
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You mean you didn't have Kenne-Bell self removing exploding bolts installed?
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LOL
such a common problem...one would think Moog would come up with Problem Solver shaft retainer bolts...
I need to consult with Chris G to see how he would do it...:D
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Once I changed the rear pushing by leaving the arm on the car and knocking it out with an air hammer and blunt chisel. Managed to draw the new bushing in somehow...
This is one of the easiest ways to do it if you're willing to take the time. No removal of the arm and when you start tightening everything back together you use the air chisel to pus the arms over the bushing. Pretty simple and you can do both side in less than an hour if you're good. :atbeer:
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well, hell!
Bushings were worn, but not cracked. Replaced them and the upper ball joint.
Car still goes left on the shift to second. May be such a tight converter that the boost is just slow enough coming up that it suddenly makes enuf power to break a tire loose on the shift...not sure. Pavement is so coarse on the highway that I cannot tell which tire is breaking loose.
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theorized the driver's side tire must be breaking loose first near the top of the third so I put ten psi in the airbag to load that tire. Went out today and it was moving to the right so I guess that theory is right but ten is a bit too much.
Real problem seems to be that it is unloading when the boost gets up in first which is not helped by the Eibach shorter/stiffer spring. Instant center needs to be pulled back.
Probably be okay on sticky pavement and less air in the Nittos would probably help, but, I like to keep enough in them for good handling.
Maybe a bit less timing in first, but where's the fun in that?
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The Eibach springs are really stiff for a V6 car and I'm not a fan at all. You have to remember that the stock fronts are at 347 lbs/in and the rears are at 122 lbs/in. The front eibachs are over 600 in the front and 180 in the rear, but I may be wrong about the rears. I can't find the notes I made but I do remember the fronts are really heavy. With the shorter height your rear arms are really off and your IC is probibly out in front of the car now.
What rear bar do you have on it right now and have you scaled the car for front to rear bias as well as side to side?
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ATR rear, no front.
I put the Eibachs on for handling and looks and I like both...yes, the IC is in front of the car. I had drops on the lower bars, but, it really unloaded bad at the top of first gear. Looked like a mopar when the body lifted straight up but needed some shocks to ease the downside.. They were made for conventional springs. Think I still have them on the other car.
Yeah, I cornered the car and adjusted the rear uppers a bit, but, I don't remember what the front/rear is...seems like the fronts were a bit over 1100 and the rears were 800+.
The real problem is the pavement and too much air pressure in the Nittos. A too tight converter just allows too much abrupt power for the conditions.
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What you're suffering from isn't to much pressure but not enough give in the rear so that you get a good weight transfer. One dirty little trick is to use an offset bushing in the ears on the axle. It's only a 1/8" offset but it brings the IC further back so you get more bite. What most guys don't realize is when you move the lowers down you may move the IC back but you also move it up at the same time. Idealy you want it below your butt closer to the actual CG of the car for the best weight transfer. It's also better to have the LCA's level with the ground.
Try lowering the rear pressures in the tires some and see how it effects the traction but I think you'd be better off witha few other changes to the suspension to get more out of it Steve.
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I don't want to lower the pressure...I run 24 psi with Nittos because they handle well with that...they hook a lot better down around 18.
Depends upon which school of thought you belong to with regard to the IC location in the vertical sense. I am more the Dave Morgan school and like to have it a bit above the neutral line....
In the end, it is really immaterial as this is a street car and I normally don't go from a stop and I prefer the car to handle well at speed in turns. When I broke the previous converter and went back to my multiclutch, things got worse because it is about 400 rpm too tight for the turbo. That causes the boost to suddenly hit hard just as the car is beginning to unload toward the top of first so it is a question of timing.
I have the Performance Trends software and have computed many different combinations. My gut reaction without any computations is that an 1/8" will not do much with a lowered car. It's more an esoteric exercise anyway, in this case. I have seen G Bodies that had the IC behind the car and they still would hook pretty well. :D