IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Auto Tech => Topic started by: Steve Wood on September 10 2020, 10:45:31 PM
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my son brought his '72 Plymouth Satellite wagon up the week end that started all the quarantine rigmarole here back in March. We pulled the 150 hp 318/transmission out of it. He made a trip up a couple of months ago and we installed time serts into all the exhaust manifolds on the 440 that were either stripped, or semi stripped as they go thru into the water jacked. That was a bit of a pain in the neck but we gotta her dun as they say. We also installed new valve springs and seals. I have a 440 that has been sitting in the shop for years since I pulled it out of the Challenger and dropped the 526 in it.
I hope the damn thing is still okay. It does not seem to be rusted up. I am not sure about the Torqueflite 727 that goes on the back of it but, again, it was working when it came out.
He came up again last week end and we dropped engine and tranny in, rebuilt the steering coupler and reconnected the steering box that I got resealed in hopes of fixing a power steering leak.
Now, I have to get under the car and pray that all the bits and pieces that I bought will allow me to figure out how to get a column shifter to work with a 727 as it was not an option.
Then I will rewire it using a GM HEI ignition module and a Crane/FAST E type coil. I will power the module directly from the battery via a relay that is triggered by the ignition switch wires that originally went to a cursed ballast resistor. The Mopar box is in the trash.
He bought a serpentine two belt system that hopefully he can figure out how to install LOL It cost the same as trying to find all the correct factory pulleys in the correct combination. The brackets and stuff that came off the 440 moved over to the 526 so I had nothing there.
The headers were not too bad of a pain. The driver's side was tedious because it had to pushed up into place but not bolted down until the starter (driver's side) was then inserted and bolted down and then the headers got installed and the engine finished lowering into place.
Once I get the column shift working (hopefully), then I will install a cable set up for the TV valve that will work with a Holley.
It was a hot week end but I mainly handed him wrenches, told him what he was doing wrong, warned him about his attitude, and/or laid under the car and steered the tail shaft.
I need to measure the driveshaft and get a new one made that will probably be about 5" shorter as best I can figure from looking at specs, but I would not yet bet on it until it gets measured.
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I love the "warned him about his attitude" line🤣🤣🤣 good times!!
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I'm getting mellow in my old age :030:.
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Time with your son is always great, sarcastic repartee not withstanding :)
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Very cool! A few pics of the exterior/interior would be great.
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Brad, my son marches to his own drummer LOL He has a Miata, a Lexus LS430, a couple of 50cc Honda scooters, a Buick T-Type which has been sitting in my shop for about 15 years, a Honda van, and the Wagon which he calls the Green Mile, or Bruce Banner/Hulk.
The wagon he saw online https://barnfinds.com/outerspacious-1972-plymouth-satellite-wagon/
It had belonged to a professor at Washington State University until some guy down in Texas bought it in 1972. He never transferred it into his name so my son is the official second owner. The guy in Texas had it about four months and put it on Ebay. My son bought it for 3500 in January of 2018.
It appears to be an honest 72,000 miles on it as best as I can tell altho it's hard to tell on a 50 year old car because bushings, and so on, rot in that time. The car ran good but with 150 hp, it did not merge easily onto freeways with people going 80 mph. Rode good altho very, very soft. It's definitely gonna take some work on bringing the suspension up to snuff.
The driver's fender has a couple of small rust holes in it and the car has some surface rust in various spots. The problem is that it is a wagon and altho it is the same body line as Chargers, Road Runners, and so on, the sheet metal is more in line with 4-doors and is not available new like the two doors. No headliners and interior either.
He put wheels and tires on it, had seat covers and a headliner made, put a booster on the brakes, new alternator, and a starter while he was driving it around Houston. He drove it out here and told me it vibrated at times and jumped out of gear at times. I looked at it and realized the both engine mounts and the tranny mount were totally gone. The engine and tranny were sitting at an angle and not tied down at all. Amazing how all the problems went away after we got it back in place on new mounts. :rock:
I had the 440 and transmission out of the Challenger sitting on the floor here and we decided that was what the doctor prescribed. That was a dumb mistake because accessories to make the swap cost more than it would have cost to build a strong small block but not all decisions in the car business are wise ones.
On the way out here back in March, it died on him in traffic in Austin. I figured it was the fuel pump, but, no, it was the ignition module. It made like a Buick and melted. I told him to get a wrecker and get it off the road and I would come get him. A cop came along and told him he could not leave it there while waiting for a wrecker. The cop was driving a F150 and pulled up behind him and gave him a push. Put a shallow dent in the tail gate which was in perfect condition before that. He's still pissed about that and I don't blame him.
Anyway, we got it here and pulled the 318 out.
Below are some pics. One is a day when he drove it to work and it is sitting in the parking garage. Looks just like the one that Mrs. Brady drove on the Brady Bunch tv show.
Another picture of the seat covers that he had made for it. It does not have the third seat option but he had the front and second seat done as well as a head liner.
There is a picture of all the boxes of parts we accumulated getting ready. It had factory air but was out of freon. We bought a modern compressor but he will have to save some money for a Vintage Air unit to go under the dash.
As I mentioned, I am going to wire a GM HEI ignition system. That's the only way to fly on Fords and Mopars if you want reliability-or spend big bucks on a MSD system which I suspect use a HEI module in the distributor.
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Looking good. Hey he didn't walk away from it. Cool driver once it's done. My get up an go has got up an left. :cheers:
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I cannot find mine, either, Dan! I am better at directing than doing. I did swap out the suspension in my Miata last fall. My son drove it to Houston this spring when he brought the wagon out here. He got an alignment done on it and had ceramic tint installed. He still has it down there. I miss driving it. I'm afraid I may get too old to crawl in and out of it before I get it back.
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Thanks for the pics Steve. I love wagons. Keep us updated...we love pics!
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Nice ride!
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As I mentioned, I am going to wire a GM HEI ignition system.
If you get as deep into distributors as I, I would advise you to at least look into the MSD E Street dist. The days of Sun dist machines and simple re curves are long over. If you are talking the large coil in cap HEI, they are hard and labor intensive to properly curve. Even with nearly 50 years experience, GM HEI is a number of compromises.
I advised and recently helped with the second one. A 454 ton trk w/dump bed. The owner expects to gain half the cost from mileage increase over OEM.
They are expensive. Single coil, no box, no additional wiring. A custom curve in 2 minutes. I consider these to be the best answer at any cost from ton trks to 600 hp/7000rpm STREET.
looking is free.
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I read about retrofitting GM HEI modules on slatsix.org years ago. Talk about easy. 4 wires, and two of them are power.
If you've got another 440 laying around I found this a few minutes ago while browsing the 'non street legal' section of eBay....
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F154083788803&campid=5338554057&toolid=10001&customid= (https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F154083788803&campid=5338554057&toolid=10001&customid=)
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If I had another 440, I would love that Henry J!
Before I moved out here, I had a couple of friends that built a Falcon for vintage racing. It would not pull the rpm we expected down the straights.
We pulled the ferd ignition module and coil and went to an HEI and the same coil I am using on this one. Picked up 800 rpm.
I think there are quite a few used on Fords but the slant six is the first place I read about it. When I bought the Challenger that this 440 came out of, it was hard to start and got worse when it got hot. I tried a different box and it made no difference. I think put the HEI module and Crane E coil on it and it started almost instantly every time.
I suspect the fact that I powered it directly off the alternator and it was getting almost two volts more than it did thru the factory wiring was an important factor.
I am doing the same thing on this wagon with the same motor. I had pulled it out and replaced it with a 526 stroker. If it was not so damn much work, I would pull the 526 out and put it in the wagon but I hate the struggle.
He wants a cruiser anyway, and the 440 was plenty strong
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'Teve, I found you a drivetrain for that Henry J... Not a 440, but I think it's close.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F402435322342&campid=5338554057&toolid=10001&customid= (https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F402435322342&campid=5338554057&toolid=10001&customid=)
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Looks good Steve!
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Looks less good today! Seems my torqueflite case does not have the boss on it that the column shifter needs to bolt to opposite the frame location.
Pisses me off. The transmission in the Challenger has it. go figure.
gonna have to get a bracket made to mount it to, it seems.
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Drill and tap for a threaded fitting with a ball end, perhaps? Like off of a Chebby?
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there does not seem to be an appropriate place to do so. Assuming that the only difference in the cases between the two cars is the mounting point for the bracket, I think the easiest will be to mock the bracket to the Challenger's transmission and then weld an arm to it that reaches over and bolts to a mounting point for a different linkage point.
it's odd that Chrysler used two different cases with regard to bracket mounts but I looked at a lot of pictures today and have verified that.
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I was thinking as long as you know where one should be, you could stick something like this in the housing and make it work.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/keystone-collision-clutch-pivot-ball-gmk4010951651/11749529-P
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Earl, that looks like an easy solution.
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https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/attachments/shift-shaft-jpg.613375/
I think this is what Steve is referring too.
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Almost, Jeremy. Except my linkage hangs down instead of being upward. It is like I show in the drawing from the manual below. I originally thought it would work like your drawing and I have that bracket...grea t plans don't survive intial contact!
Here is a diagram from the shop manual. This pic is for the smaller transmission like I took out, but the the 727 is the same other than the mounting bracket is very short.
Okay, we see the bracket on the frame which I have and we see the torque shaft that goes across to the transmission. That is like I took out. It will not work on the new set up because the headers are in the way. The solution to that is a torque shaft that is made to work with headers and I have that. It goes up and over the headers and comes back down on the transmission side where it should stick into the bracket that bolts to the transmission.
This is where the problem is. I have the correct bracket for a 727. What I don't have is the mounting boss on the 727 case that is going into the wagon so I cannot bolt the bracket to the transmission.
The 727 in my Challenger DOES have the boss-go figure.
If you look at the attached drawing from the manual, you can see the bracket and where it mounts to the transmission. I just don't have the boss on the case to bolt it to.
My solution is to fab an arm on the bracket and bolt it to a different spot of the transmission so that it ends up in the correct spot but the mounting point has been moved six or eight inches.
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Steve...what rear gear is in the car. Wonder if there was an option depending on engine size.
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I think it has a 3.23 but, I think it is more of a combination of the drivetrains and body styles. Makes no sense that they left the mounting points off but Chrysler was known for some screwy decisions.
Here is a picture showing what I need in red and what I have in green. It's either fab a bracket or try to buy the complete linkage as shown in Jeremy's diagram. Might find it on ebay.
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this would work if I could find the linkage complete. I think it would miss the headers anyway LOL
Might have to modify the frame side mount. Right now, I am trying to avoid pulling the motor and headers cause they ain't no fun
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Okay, not sure if this is going to work but it looks like it may.
the green line is on the bracket that had no place to bolt on to the transmission due to the missing boss on this case.
The red line is on an L shaped bracket that my neighbor and I made that hangs down from the mounting point in Jeremy's diagram above.
the bracket that had no place to mount is attached to the home made bracket. It looks like it may work but I ran out of time to connect the linkages with split keys and it popped out of the various holes when I tried to the shifter because it was not held in place...
So, I will have to connect everything properly and see what happens...cros sing my fingers that it works and does not need too much more tweaking...I don't care about ugly because this is almost impossible to see...but functional is an absolute necessity unless I get mad and cut a hole in the floor and shift it by hand LOL
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Looks like a place to use a shifter cable
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I have not seen a shifter cable for a column shift. I will use a cable for the throttlevalve
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https://www.ididitinc.com/i-25049856-cable-shift-linkage-2-chrysler-column-727-904-trans.html?ref=brand:102176
(https://www.ididitinc.com/i-25049856-cable-shift-linkage-2-chrysler-column-727-904-trans.html?ref=brand:102176)they don’t give them away Steve!
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No, they don't and it looks like it needs the same mounting boss that is missing on my 727. I see it says they can make a custom kit...bet that is more.
Hopefully, my rigging will work but I am waiting on some replacement nylon grommets that the torque rod pivots in. the old ones will not stay seated in the brackets.