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Messages - Ineedagn
31
« on: January 13 2021, 10:53:58 PM »
Inspect the pump vanes where they contact the rings. If theres a visible notch in them, replace them (same as 700 and cheap). You can reuse them if they're not worn. Pic of an acceptable one vs a worn one (and they can be much worse than this):
Now, take the original pump rings, clamp them in a vise and snap them in half:
This is done to A: illustrate how brittle they are and B: keep you from ever reusing them. We will be replacing them later. (note: if its been apart it may have better rings in it already and they may be harder to snap or impossible. Replace them anyway so you know what you have. More on that later)
Plastic rotor guide: Gently try to flex it. If it's not brittle it can be reused, but honestly, they're like $1. Be sure you're getting a 7 vane guide when you purchase.
Obviously inspect the rotor and slide for any cracks or obvious wear, on the rotor make sure you inspect the tabs where the converter engages it. Now back to the pump cover (stator side).
32
« on: January 13 2021, 10:49:51 PM »
Next two pics will show the difference in seal area. 149 and 082 are identical here. 690 has the aforementioned step as well as a bit more relief for seal drainback.
Bruce from PTS was an avid believer that the earlier bodies needed to be milled out here a bit to match the 690s profile for a drainback aide. I doubt it makes any difference in reality but just for fun I'll include a pic of one of my adventures doing the same thing in redneck fashion:
don't recommend that "mod" I just inserted it for comic relief. Though I did put that in a trans....
33
« on: January 13 2021, 10:46:23 PM »
Teardown: Remove the 5 bolts that hold the two halves together, set the stator side of the pump aside and start on the pump body. Remove the top ring, the rotor and vanes, and rotor guide. Pry the spring(s) out from the slide with a rag over them to keep them from flying off. For some reason I forgot to take pics of all of this :red face: but i assume you have a manual of some sort if this is the first time you've been in one of these anyway. Remove the slide, pivot pin and pay special attention not to lose the little spring under the pivot pin.
Now take a screwdriver and hammer and pry out the old seal: (I'm using the red pump only because I've already removed the bushing and seal from the one I'll be building).
Using a bushing driver, remove the bushing. If you have a 690 pump body, you will have to remove it by driving it "inward" because the 690 pump body has a ridge in it to prevent the bushing from walking out. You can remove this with a screwdriver or chisel (carefully) but you'll want the proper driver to reinstall it anyway. Mine's custom made just for this bushing, I haven't looked but I'm sure they are commercially available.
34
« on: January 13 2021, 10:34:50 PM »
NOTE: You MUST be logged in to see pictures in this thread. Signing up is easy. I had no way around it.
PREFACE: THIS INFORMATION IS NOT INTENDED TO BE TAKEN AS GOSPEL. THIS IS ONE PERSON'S WAY OF DOING THINGS, SOME WILL DISAGREE WITH SOME OF IT, I'LL TRY TO POINT OUT ANYTHING THAT FALLS UNDER BUILDER PREFERENCE. None of this will be news to any of the veteran builders, but I'm doing this by request to help the average "guy in his garage" get his pump built as properly as can be done without machining the housings. I got good at these back when I worked full time at a trans shop doing 700r4 pumps. Thankfully for us, most parts interchange except the housings themselves, which greatly helps part availability and cost. Let's not forget that the 200-4r predated the 700r4 by three years, so the early build 200s are GM's first use of this style pump. which brings me to the first area of discussion.
What pump castings do you have and what's the difference? Early build pumps and pump covers are 149/150 casting number (ignore the red paint,it's the only early pump I have here), late castings are 082 body/088 cover and then the latest 690 body which used the same 088 cover. Here's the differences:
Early style is the bottom housing in this picture. The cavity that the orange screwdriver is stuck into is line pressure. Note how the early casting has the top land of the pressure regulator valve open for line pressure to exert force on it and uses a solid valve, and the late casting has the top of the valve area closed off. Now note how the late pr valve has a hole in it, EDIT: crap, you can't see the hole in this pic. Anyway, the late pr valve has a hole in it that goes from the area of the 90 degree pick, up through the valve and out the top of the valve into the now sealed off cavity. Still gets the same line pressure to the top of the valve, just through a different route. There's a GM service bulletin on the change, it was done to help isolate the land from pump pulsing in an effort to reduce PR valve buzz. I HAVE read mixed impressions about it's effectiveness. Some claim they won't use early pumps and some claim there's no practical difference. You do, however, need to know about this for interchange reasons. The "proper" way to do it is to use the 149/150 early combo as an assembly with the solid PR valve and use the late 082 or 690 body with the late 088 cover with the PR valve that has a hole through it. However, the only combo that absolutely won't work is to somehow end up with an early solid PR valve in a late housing. If you mix/match the parts it'll work as long as you have a pr valve with a hole in it. However, it'll work the same as an early design with line pressure acting directly on top of the valve and not through the hole.
Next pic shows the early and late pump bodies with the tools pointed at the same holes as the cover in the previous pic. Note how the late casting was revised with a larger flat machined area to fully isolate the valve tip from line pressure and forcing it to go through the hole in the revised valve. If you use an early body with the late cover it will allow line pressure to go around the newly sealed off cavity and negate any gains from the design change. It WILL "work", however.
Next pic is of the pr valve circuit from the manual. My manual only shows the early design, not sure if a later revision bothers to show the late design?? Edit: It doesn't.
Again, if anyone has more detailed info or testimonial from using early vs late pump castings, I'm all ears.
35
« on: January 13 2021, 12:40:42 AM »
Well I finally got this monstrosity ready to re-post, even re-sized all the damn pics to fit here, but realized 99 percent of people wanting to view it will have to register here and log in for the sole purpose of viewing the pics. I can post it and let it happen but is there any alternative? Better off on the vortex site? I need direction. Life is hard.
36
« on: December 08 2020, 06:43:48 PM »
I would never use someone else's site as the single source archive of my efforts. By all means publish your instructions here but make sure you have a local copy. Putting it up on two or 3 sites is good diversity too.
Didn’t have much choice as I certainly will not be creating my own website. “I” didn’t lose any data, I still have all the pics etc. but when the board “crashed” or whatever and they recovered the backed up text and no pics, the thread became basically useless. I could fix it in 10 mins if they’d enable editing of old posts but my pleas have fallen on deaf ears so it has to start from scratch with copy/pasted/edited text. It took a lot more work than I thought it would or I’d never have done it the first time. 99% of it is stuff I learned working at a trans shop and not trade secrets from any of the vendors.
37
« on: December 07 2020, 01:33:39 PM »
Or should it go on the vortexbuicks site? 10 or 12 posts, around 70-80 pics....
first did it in 2017 on TB.com, board lost all the pics. people been bugging me about fixing it for a year or so. cant edit original post, gotta start from scratch
kind of a pain in the ass and this is the last time i'm doing it
38
« on: December 16 2017, 08:27:03 AM »
My username over on t6p was simply "bob".
39
« on: December 15 2017, 10:38:15 PM »
There used to be a good group of guys in Wichita, even had their own website, the gwtra. Shawn moved overseas, Brian J sold his car, Brian T is in kc, not sure of the rest of them. I resorted to hanging out with Buick guys in Iowa when the gwtra fell apart and now the website isn't even up anymore. Anyway, I'm about 3.5 hours north of you.
Bob
40
« on: December 15 2017, 10:32:35 PM »
Hi all. New here but not to these cars. 87 gn, nice car that I neglect to pay enough attention to, and an 84 t type/86 powertrain that's my daily driver in the summer despite the fact it's only half put together. Had the gn 15 years, I'm in Kansas and I'm a total f@&$in' nerd for the 200-4r. If there was a way to have intercourse with/legally marry the 200-4r I'd probably do it.
HOLY $H!T so this is where be4u has been hiding all these years? Dude last I'd heard you were just getting settled in Vegas then You dropped off the face of the earth or so I'd thought. I bought an amp from you off t6p and that turned into a several page conversation. Probably every bit of ten years ago
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