IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
General => IHADAV8 Playground => Topic started by: Scoobum on October 24 2019, 08:57:52 PM
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Okay, my son in law is gonna be building my garage in the spring. Car and a half. 220...heated.. .side door...electri c door opener. What am I forgetting?
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The other half for the half car.
Thick enough floor for a lift.
Enough ceiling height for said lift.
Heated floor.
Plenty of lighting.
Loft or second floor to store stuff.
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Not sure what the bylaw is for height.
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Decide what you want for a lift and plan around that . Does it need a pit , extra floor thickness or pads etc. Make sure its an insulated garage door. You want cooling too. How small is the service for your house?. Never get a 7ft wide door, always 8ft if they are singles.
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I had the electrical upgraded in the house years ago. I prolly told him to set it on kill.
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a shitload of lights and plugs. I curse the person that built my garage with only 2 outlets. Mine garage is also car and half, I do wish it was a bit longer. Buick doesn't leave much room on either end to move around. So I'd say, build it as big as they'll possibly let you.
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Buick is 16ft. Add 2ft min for the end you aren't workin on, say 6feet for the other end.
A minimum of 25 feet long? Prolly not enough...
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Subpanel in the garage and everything fed off that so your breakers are near by.
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Subpanel in the garage and everything fed off that so your breakers are near by.
Will do.
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a shitload of lights and plugs. I curse the person that built my garage with only 2 outlets. Mine garage is also car and half, I do wish it was a bit longer. Buick doesn't leave much room on either end to move around. So I'd say, build it as big as they'll possibly let you.
Definitely will be longer. Deck is beside it...so width will be an issue.
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Wire it like a kitchen- outlets 3 feet apart and one breaker per one or two outlets but put adjacent outlets on different breakers. Split outlets would be nice but 3 conductor wire gets pricey.
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No matter what the intentions are at time of pour... put pex tubing in the slab. Once it's poured, you can't go back and add that.
A small rocket stove could easily heat water to make the floor warm for free. Nobody want's to lay on a cold slab. Oh, and insulate the perimeter of the slab for that reason too.
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speaking from experience, Use Roxal for insulation as it's mold resistant and won't absorb moisture like pink fibreglass. Make sure you vapour barrier the hell outta it so it's air tight = nice n warm (no drafts)
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Put all the outlets 4feet up. Low they just get wet and you are going to pile crap against the wall or change you mind about where the bench goes.
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Okay, the new garage is gonna be 4 feet wider and 5 feet longer than the current one. Shoot me some ideas on heating it. Oil and wood are a no go. I can have a gas line run from the house if need be.
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Not sure what the bylaw is for height.
Here the garage cannot exceed the height of the house. If you have a 2 story your good to go! And the rest of the stuff Rich said.
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I have a 30x40 pole building. Metal liner panels on walls and ceiling, fiberglass 6" blankets in the walls, blown in cellulose in the ceiling.
I heat it with a two stage 30-40k, (I think) gas, radiant tube heater hung from the center of the ceiling. My ceiling is only 10', which isn't ideal for RT heaters, but the one I bought is designed for low ceilings and works VERY good.
I set it at 65 (unless my daughter is doing a project, then 68) and it stays dead on through the coldest nights here in NJ. Everything in the shop is at a comfortable temperature, including the floor. T-shirt weather all year round.
After radiant floor, like GRumpy mentioned, radiant tube is the next best thing.
Oh, and its super efficient and I ran my own gas line, very easy to do.
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Thanks Bullnerd...loo ks like the way I'll go. My son in law has his own small construction company and is looking after the complete build for me. I'll show him this. Thanks so much.
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Also, I ordered the heater from a place called, Matchless-energy Management, In Parsippany NJ. They are the distributor in my area for Superior radiant tube heaters.
Guys name is John Grant, super nice guy and very helpful. He did a free heat loss calc and advised what size/type of heater to buy.
Here is the official number of the one I have, Superior Radiant SeriesLTA04N3A Low Clearance Two Stage Heater
No affiliation with these guys, just trying to help.
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Thanks dude.
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Good Canadian ptoduct
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If I could have designed my shop, some type of heating coming from the floor. Concrete is cold and sucks the life out of you
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One of the places I worked removed the steam heat and replaced it with radiant. The problem with radiant is you have to be standing right under it to be warm and when it was -20C or colder there was no heat. But this was in a building with 40ft ceiling. We referred to the radiant heat area as cold storage! :player:
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I've heard that before, but if it's set up properly, I dont think thats the case.
I can feel the difference from directly underneath my heater vs being over by the wall, but the difference is not really worth noting. If the room is insulated properly, it's hard to beat.
If you research how it works, It heats the stuff, the stuff radiates heat. The trick is to leave it on continuous, so all the stuff stays warm.
Floor stays plenty warm to touch/sit on when it's below zero outside.
The only other thing I would say to the op is do the best you can afford on the insulation, especially the ceiling.
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I know exactly how radiant heat works. And once it got colder than -30 the radiant heat was none existent because of the density of the air and the fact that heat rises!
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Yeah, I wasn't implying anything.
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Yeah, I wasn't implying anything.
LOL, hey, we learned that Brad must be building a shop 40 ft tall and that heat rises as compared to cold. He should have been more specific and stated that radiant heat works, it just not work if one is 40 ft below it unless it has an assist fan.
Meanwhile, back in the real world...LOL
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Then we can argue if it's better to blow the cold air out or blow the hot air down or both:045:
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Lol. Excellent point!
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Yeah, I wasn't implying anything.
I'm just basically letting him know the pro's and con's. For the last 5 years I have been working with heating controls and have seen lots of stuff. One place I worked had a Geothermal, which was 100% useless in the winter. If the inside is set for 22'C and the outside temperature is -45'C that is a delta T of 67 degrees, that was impossible for the system to work. The Director even commented that we have the most expensive AC! And even that I commented on why we are going through heat pumps when the ground water is exactly what the chilled water loop runs at. :chin:
Radiant heat would be good as long as your not opening the overhead door often and you're not dealing with extreme cold and wind.
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Then we can argue if it's better to blow the cold air out or blow the hot air down or both:045:
I guess you've never heard of the chimney effect? It is one of the laws of thermodynamics .
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LOLOLOLOLOL
No, it is not one of the laws of thermodynamics!!!!!!!!!
Also, it is properly referred to as the Stack Effect, but, it's still not one of the Laws of Thermodynamics .
Ron, you have me thinking. If you dig a 40 ft hole in the floor under a radiant heater that is 40 ft above the floor, when you open the cover to the hole, does the air in the building all pour into the hole while the hot air around the heater rises up and goes to the top of the building? Subsequently, does this result in a vacuum at floor level so all the workers die of oxygen deprivation?
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Then we can argue if it's better to blow the cold air out or blow the hot air down or both:045:
I guess you've never heard of the chimney effect? It is one of the laws of thermodynamics .
The air across the top of the chimney creates a vacuum[draw] so if you put a pipe to recycle the heat being drawn out and pipe it back into the building at floor level then it would heat the floor space. :D
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LOLOLOLOLOL
No, it is not one of the laws of thermodynamics!!!!!!!!!
Also, it is properly referred to as the Stack Effect, but, it's still not one of the Laws of Thermodynamics .
Ron, you have me thinking. If you dig a 40 ft hole in the floor under a radiant heater that is 40 ft above the floor, when you open the cover to the hole, does the air in the building all pour into the hole while the hot air around the heater rises up and goes to the top of the building? Subsequently, does this result in a vacuum at floor level so all the workers die of oxygen deprivation?
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IDK Steve ,seems like the air in the ground is warmer than the air above and the air near the roof is warmer than both of those so probably create a sideways tornado
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But on a serious note nothing beats the heat from a wood stove.
maybe a pellet stove would work.
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Polar vortex! Pellet stove work very well for sure. I think the radiant heater will work as well unless the interior volume is too great. Insulation will be everything
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"Insulation will be everything"
I ran my heater a bit over one winter before I had insulation blown in the ceiling. I was really shocked at the difference after insulating. I knew it would be better, but I didn't know how much.
I think he said no wood or oil?
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Yep
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LOLOLOLOLOL
No, it is not one of the laws of thermodynamics!!!!!!!!!
Also, it is properly referred to as the Stack Effect, but, it's still not one of the Laws of Thermodynamics .
Ron, you have me thinking. If you dig a 40 ft hole in the floor under a radiant heater that is 40 ft above the floor, when you open the cover to the hole, does the air in the building all pour into the hole while the hot air around the heater rises up and goes to the top of the building? Subsequently, does this result in a vacuum at floor level so all the workers die of oxygen deprivation?
Think of the band CCR and you have conduction, convection and radiation. Convection is where the chimney effect falls in. If it makes you feel better you can call it stack effect.
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WTF drugs are you on this week? Call in sick until you are clean!
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WTF drugs are you on this week? Call in sick until you are clean!
No drugs! And I got an +A in thermo. The Engineer that taught me it took all the ASME course's in the States as well. Most people forget about the zeroth law.
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Sorry Scoobum...wasn't trying to derail your thread.
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No worries dude. I'll post the measurements tomorrow. I'd go wider...but I need some room between the deck and garage. I'm up here in the Great White North eh! It'll be insulated...an d then some. Even gonna grab a garage door blanket.
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Bullnerd, you did not sidetrack the convo. That was Forzfed going off on a tangent about 40 ft ceilings, etc. He did not seem to get the hints we tossed at him. SMH.
The radiant heaters that you mentioned are built up in Ontario and I am pretty sure they know what will work and what will not. Sounds like Brad's shop should be ideal unless he has 40' ceilings.
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It's gonna be 15x25 to 15x27 with an 8 foot ceiling. Gonna talk to the son-in-law about the length. I'm leaving myself 4 feet between the deck and the garage. My motorcycles are in the shed in the back...and I need room to get them between the deck and garage.
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Make an access through the garage. Or better yet, cut the part of the deck off and make the garage even bigger. with a through access.
How warm do you want the garage to be? Anything above 60f is just a waste.IMO
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Hot tub is on the deck...so it ain't gettin' cut back.
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Son-in-law just left. He's gonna talk to the town by-law guy and find out how long I can build it...and how far away from the house it has to be. How far from the house will dictate the length...as my yard isn't very big.
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That's my issue Brad - 15ft from the sideline and 20ft from any existing building is what I'm regulated to. I have a 60' wide patch but after regulations, I'm left with 25'. If I attach it I can build what I want up to the 15ft sideline. 1 street over, it's 10' and 10'. My township is less than helpful and has not responded to any of my questions. I need to call another builder - the last few have been no shows or never deliver the quote. I just haven't felt like dealing with it.
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Not sure if you can do it up there Brad, but in the states you can file with the municipality for what’s called a variance. This is an exception to the rules. We had to do one for my father in laws back porch. File with the city and then send certified letters to the neighbors to see if they had a problem with what we wanted to do. If no one squawks, then the variance is approved and your somewhat free to build.
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Update. Garage will be built commencing mid summer. Final size is 14x24. Pretty pumped about getting it done.
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glad it is going to get going!
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Good stuff -can't make that 16x24?
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Good stuff -can't make that 16x24?
Nope...to close to the deck. I'm pushing it at 14.
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Sounds like your building a she-shed!
Lol - just joking.
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Double door? 14ft would fit two cars, door opening is a b*tch tho. I prolly only have 16ft to work with for ours.
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Double door? 14ft would fit two cars, door opening is a b*tch tho. I prolly only have 16ft to work with for ours.
Single door. I'm on a small lot. This will be as big as the town will allow for the lot size. I have a 1 and a half storey. Built in 1952. Looks like a 'war time' home. They were built to last. No plywood BS. Roof is 2x10.
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Will they allow height for a lift? If so, get the overhead bar type, not the one that routes cables through floor type cover. In floor heat can't be beat, very efficient also if properly insulated, floor included. Your not building a huge building so in floor won't be that bad cost wise to operate, just up front cost. As mentioned, lots of plug ins with lots of breakers, 4 foot up is convenient. Again with that size a ceiling mounted extension cord on a retractable reel is super handy. Will reach most of shop. Run an air line down one side with quick connects every 6 ft. Super handy. Use white steel on ceiling with LED lighting and you will love the lighting. Just finished building my 3rd shop and these are some things I have incorporated in last one. If I ranked by "must have" first is in floor heat, second is led lighting, third is lots of plug ins. Just my 2 cents, enjoy the new shop
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Will they allow height for a lift? If so, get the overhead bar type, not the one that routes cables through floor type cover. In floor heat can't be beat, very efficient also if properly insulated, floor included. Your not building a huge building so in floor won't be that bad cost wise to operate, just up front cost. As mentioned, lots of plug ins with lots of breakers, 4 foot up is convenient. Again with that size a ceiling mounted extension cord on a retractable reel is super handy. Will reach most of shop. Run an air line down one side with quick connects every 6 ft. Super handy. Use white steel on ceiling with LED lighting and you will love the lighting. Just finished building my 3rd shop and these are some things I have incorporated in last one. If I ranked by "must have" first is in floor heat, second is led lighting, third is lots of plug ins. Just my 2 cents, enjoy the new shop
The best advice you will get is from a man that has obviously built a shop before!
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I told my sun to put a good air compressor in and lots of couplings.
Not one of his employee have a air tool. My how things have changed.
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I can't believe the red tape involved in something that should be as simple as having a garage built. They want permits for everything...e ven one for taking the old one down.
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I've got a 5x10 storage unit on hold for July 2nd to put all the stuff from the garage into while the new one is being built.
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I can't believe the red tape involved in something that should be as simple as having a garage built. They want permits for everything...e ven one for taking the old one down.
they don't want permits, They want the money that the permits fees bring in.
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You're correct Rich.
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Red tap will wear on you ,just step back and take a breath.
Your on your way , they can they can slow you down but they can’t stop you.
I have a small lot too. I have a 20X20 it’s wide enough wish it was deeper.
I bought the lot next door to build on.Blanky blank red tap said I have to build a house on it first.
Got a empty lot we mow the grass every week in the summer and ever outer week in the winter.
Up Sid one less jackass neighbor. Or a neighbor that don’t have to dill with this jackass.
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Can you have the two parcels resurveyed into one ? Then have enough on your one piece to build something.
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I suspect then could never build a house on it, or sell it for value
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Can you have the two parcels resurveyed into one ? Then have enough on your one piece to build something.
It was an option we strongly considered. We felt like it’s money in the bank even with a garage on it. But as a separate lot it’s has value, even if the economy tanks. Hawaii property with a ocean view on a corner is money and I got it right. Rich guy bought it got bad news from his doctor and gave me a price 50% of what it paid if I could cash him out before Friday ( three days) best money I ever spent on anything.
Go Scoobum some may think your not going big enough. That’s just the right size so you don’t have to exercise self control on how much $hit you can horde. A lift in a garage is so handy usual for your beer drinking friends how just need to use it for a hour and realized he for got to get something and it’s up in the air for two weeks waiting for it.
My son keeps telling me to use his shop,he has 3 lifts ever time I go over to help out I drive something that needs a oil change. I leave and go home and roll around one the floor because his place is full, guess that why he calls me up for help.
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My lift is used mainly for storage. As I got older, my back preferred I lay on it under the car instead of standing up and reaching up under the lift!
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Highest I can go is 9 feet...so that's what I'm doing. Not allowed to have a pit either.
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Just have to get it resurveyed and split off when you decide you want to sell it. The new owner can keep or bulldoze the building as long as it isn't built on the property line.
Land anywhere will have value, some not near as much as real estate on one of the Hawaiian islands and is generally a decent investment but cash flow on a parcel ain't much if it is just sitting there. A building to do things and store things in adds value to any car or motorcycle guy but that doesn't produce the cash flow either. Some things are just cash consumers.
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Any one try quick jack
Texas t something to check on thanks
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Tim, that'll be something I look into after I get this built.
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Gonna shoot vids as the old one is being demolished and the new one built. You'll see how small a yard I have, and this is as big as I could go.
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The new garage is 4 feet deeper in the lot, so I have room to get the snowblower and motorcycles between the garage and deck from the shed in the back.
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How many feet from the property line? A lean roof ...after final inspection. Eventually closed in then becomes part of the garage.
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Garage has to be a minimum of 6 feet from the house. The current garage is 3 feet off the neighbours property line. We're leaving it at that.
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Garage is well on the way to being built. I've shot vids of each step of the way. Will be posting them when edited.
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Thanks for keeping use up to date
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Here is a preview
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Jeremy, there's a foot of crushed limestone compacted and a foot of concrete for the floor. The concrete is still hot from curing.
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That’s a lot of concrete!
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First vid. Garage demolition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVUdLudHfKo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVUdLudHfKo)
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Old slab removal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLsq-HLtuLo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLsq-HLtuLo)
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Excavation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcENVjnhlgw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcENVjnhlgw)
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Stone slinger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZZAUHgEFSY&t=14s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZZAUHgEFSY&t=14s)
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why such a thick slab?
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Overkill on the slab is a good thing.
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Garage is Looking good Brad 👍
30 MPA concrete and a lil rebar strategically placed for a lift?
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No lift.
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Compacting the base.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5nEYwjnChM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5nEYwjnChM)
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Pouring the pad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaThwSh5qKY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaThwSh5qKY)
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Nice videos. You are going to town Scoobum. That foundation will be there a hundred years from now. :cheers:
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Walls are up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlexFu0-lvA
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Looking good!
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Trusses are up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkzZuVvkDo0&feature=youtu.be
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Ready for shingles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap9vIqg0VYo
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More Progress
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHq6uDe1aFw
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Exterior walkaround of the new shop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4gElNdIr-Q
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Interior tour of the new shop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmZxYhznH2U
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Looking good!!
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Where is the insulation? I've got the same sub for my computer/gaming setup!
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Just insulating the ceiling. Wood stove is going in first. Takes very little heat to keep it at 70 degrees. Square footage is only 375.