IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Just a Six? on July 15 2020, 04:57:11 PM
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Well I still haven't spent any time on the car except new plugs with oil & filter. The car has always run rich & idle exhaust is always a bit gassy smelling but now it's causing issues. When the car is cold it starts fine but after a drive with normal engine temps & it's parked for 20-30 mins it's a bit hard to start & sounds like it's running on less than all 6 cylinders for 10-15 secs.
If I hook up power Logger what should I look at when it runs rough for that 10-15 secs. Thanks :cheers: [size=78%] [/size]
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take a lot and post it...sounds to me like it's got a sticky leaky injector or something...gu ess we should look at the maf numbers when it is idling as well
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Thanks Steve I'll try & see if I can post it up.
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when you turn the key off, check to see if your fuel pressure falls immediately
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Good one I didn't think of that.
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Forgot I can't cut & paste
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Forgot I can't cut & paste :013:
Anyways I went for a good hiway cruise & car was acting good all Sunday so let's see if it continues & I'll post up my entire info next time
I had it all done up but I'm not doing it again right now.
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So basically, what did you find?
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Steve I'm not really sure because it seemed ok on Sunday but after starting it definitely likes a small throttle blip to clear it's throat & it's fine. [size=78%]I gotta say that it was only one day with two hot starts so maybe it went away or I just got lucky? I found a mechanic who's older & has just one bay with a lift & very reasonable hourly rate & I'm welcome to get my hands dirty if i get the urge so when I have time I'm going there to give it a good once over & throw in a fuel filter since it's been a while then see where that leads me. I'll take a box of spare parts & see what trouble we can get into? Thinking I'll redo my compression numbers then throw in my bottle of Engine Restore & see what happens at seasons end. I'll keep you posted if this idle comes back again. [/size]
Why is this Shrinking?? On my screen the letters started getting smaller??
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Dave if you can't post a PL file on here, send it to my e-mail and I'll post it. PM you my e-mail.
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Thanks for the offer Brad when I finally get some time next week I'll hook up PL & see if I can get a few files recorded of the 1st 10 secs after startup. Although it didn't seem to be as rough on Sunday as it was before so maybe I hit something under the hood when I was looking for obvious wires off etc. I really just need some time with the car & to get motivated next week.
Brad I got your email info thanks :cheers: [size=78%] [/size]
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Well today I was thinking how the car has been running pretty decent (still a bit gassy) & of course 2 mins into my drive it sounds & smells like I have a cylinder down with fuel smelling strong out the pipes. I go home to get PL & by the time I remember how to get it working while at idle in the parking lot the car seems somewhat ok again? I take a short drive (I don't know why I waited so long to hit record) but when I finally did I was close to home on a side street no more than 2K RPM & I don't see anything? I know it's a bad sample to try to get info but I was feeling a bit pissed at the car & came home thinking I'm going to test & maybe swap out my coil pac & module. My brain keeps pulling me to the coil & module?
Problem with PL is it's on my old IBM ThinkPad so I can't post it up & I failed at loading it on my Dell laptop I'm on now.
I'll try to load it up on my Dell again otherwise I can't pass info to Brad or post it here.
Yes I'm a bit Frustrated with it at the moment so I don't think I'll make much headway today. Now I'm looking for instructions on how to use this coil tester because altho I've used it many years ago at Norbs place I could use a quick refresher.
I'll post when I have some results of some kind. Ok I'm done Venting for the day. ;)
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Save the file to a USB drive and move it to your dell.
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Earl I'm not very knowledgeable with computers but I'm guessing you mean like a memory stick like I store photo's & documents? If not I'm not sure what you mean? Since I was able to load it on my IBM years ago I should be able to get it on this Dell with patience.[size=78%] [/size]
I had to go down to the garage just now so I started the car & damn thing ran just fine?? :013:
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Memory stick.
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I should stay out of this, but I just went though it with a friends motorcycle. He is a good mechanic but did not have enough age to understand 2 plug per coil waste spark.
ON A MOTORCYCLE these systems do not fire the plug to engine ground. The secondary coil circuit is not grounded. The 2 plugs will erode the electrode on one plug and the ground strap on the other. If either plug cannot complete the circuit, the coil will quickly fail.
2 plug waste spark is the oldest battery ignition system and only requires an even number of cylinders.
edit-only requires an even number of plugs, as in 2 per cylinder.
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The plugs are fresh from spring but I'll take a look at them. I tried to use my home made coil tester I paid good $$ for way back when & it only consistently sparks on the 1st pair of coils. The Allen head bolts connecting to the coils are adjustable length but I had no luck with that so I swapped a new coil & module & the tester did the same crap.
I went for a quick drive & car was ok & since it was bad both trips previous maybe I got lucky but I wouldn't bet on it.
As if I wasn't already going crazy enough my 160* stat decided it wasn't opening until about 220* on the way home so even tho it was fine on my drive just now the spare stat goes in next. Before the new rad went in I used a couple treatments of rad flush so maybe the stat didn't like that? Either way this car just keeps on giving this season. :068:
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Well I finally found my water issue, the heater core is pissing water under the car. I don't need heat so I'll loop the hoses for now unless it will cause any issues that I'm not aware of? I'm just not into replacing a heater core so it's going to have to wait for now.
I removed my new plugs & 4 are fouled black & 2 are really white. I'll see if I can post a pic when I have a bit of time later on.
I put in 6 new 42's gapped at 32 so lets see what happens? I'm not expecting it to improve, something is making this thing pig rich.
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Are you still running a POS Gen II Translator?
Also, have you taken your ohm meter and measured the resistance across the two spark plug terminals on each coil pack?
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When you were running with 4 fouled plugs, the O2 was seeing additional unburnt oxygen so it adds fuel...
..which makes it worse, and it add more fuel.. etc..
On your two white plugs, do they look steam cleaned or solvent washed? (AKA when you lick them, do they taste like gas?)
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Steve I'm using an AXIS unit. I have some pics but trying to load them Steve do you mind if I email them to you it will be faster.
When I turn them over the other side looks different on them?
Earl I'll let you be the judge they're pretty White on 1 side not as much turned over?
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Steve pics sent thanks!
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Dave...have you got everything set on the default settings...and the switches set correctly for your chip.
https://www.turbotweaksupport.com/files/axis_interface.pdf (https://www.turbotweaksupport.com/files/axis_interface.pdf)
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42's...are way to cold...and will missfire. They're made for over 25 PSI. Go to your friendly GM dealer and grab CR43TS. Been there done that with 42's.
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xxx
don't know why the pics are distorted. They are okay on my end LOL
and they download in the correct perspective so I am going to blame Jeremy!!!!!
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Dave, did you check the resistance of each coil pack as I asked?
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wonder if the cam sensor is 180 degs out?
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Steve I won't be touching until tomorrow. The plugs are worse than normal because the car was pretty hot 220* when I shut it down & towed it home yesterday & it was started & shut off after 20-30 secs a few times. They are NGK UR5 When I did fire it up today for 30 secs it just smelled like Gas real strong. The coil & module are new off the shelf but I will check them. The engine hasn't been touched in 10 years so cam sensor should be right I ran it at BPG like this for 3 years.
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If all is correct (cam sensor, maf settings, coil resistances, I would say you got a bunch of screwy, dirty, partially stuck open injectors...or something else lol
First, I would find out why it got to 220
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David, if you have a Caspers Coil/module tester, set it on there and see if you get nice bright blue sparks all the way thru the rpm band as you turn the knob. I would prefer to do it on a warmed up coil pack.
If you don't have a coil tester, but have a spare coil and module, swap that onto your engine.
If you don't have that, take the coil off the module and look at the potting compound in the module to see if it looks nice and smooth, or does it look melted.
I remembered that you said it ran a few seconds at a time when it got hot. I don't know if it ran hot because the thermostat is stuck, the core is plugged up, the fans are not working, or the engine is only running on part of the cylinders part of the time
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it just smelled like Gas real strong.
When I started mine, it had set for 23 1/2 years. Probably not started for 2-3 yrs. It started right up and was rich as hell.
Because it would not hold fuel pressure, I changed out a new pump. It turned out unnecessary.
I pulled the injectors and sent them to Injection Connection. They test every injector they get. Mine all failed every test. My injectors have not been available for over a decade, so mine were rebuilt, flow matched and tested. The tests before/after are included w/injectors.
My have only good to say about them. They were recommended by a life long friend who is into competition turbo v8's.
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I think that my 12 year old 60lb injectors will be my next step after rechecking the Axis, checking resistance on new coil & module & seal up the lines to the heater box. I just took a quick look & realize the hoses are different size so not sure which way I'll go on that yet.
My Mom called & I have some family stuff that's going to sideline me for a bit but I will post back with progress.
Thanks for all the help I appreciate it. :cheers:
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Hope your Mom is okay!
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Thanks Steve
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Just a Six (http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=474)
The guy at Injection Connection said that injectors that had set as long as mine were nearly always bad. He said that used injectors out and on the bench are good for days or weeks only. He said the next time mine sets to build pressure in the system once a week. Or try to.
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Well I'm sure mine are questionable since the car sits 7 months a year & then is only driven less than 2K kilometers a year lately & they are 60's that are about 12 years old. When I get some time I'll find some heater hose to bypass the heater core then I'll go for a decent drive & check the plugs again but injectors are on the to do list for sure so thanks for the info.
Thinking I'll get rid of the 2 pipes to heater core for now if I can find what I need later on when I have time.
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http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/heater_core_replacement.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/heater_core_replacement.htm)
Jeremy, why are the links coming out so small?
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Steve you can't cut n paste but I opened it in a new window & went right to your site with heater core info.
So I saw your pics of the R&R I need to open it all up first & then order the parts. Thanks Steve! :cheers:
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it's a pretty easy job. Just get all the bolts out LOL
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Highway Stars is out of stock on Heater Cores https://www.highwaystars.net/heater-core-aluminum-replaces-gm-s-3037689-52479872/ (https://www.highwaystars.net/heater-core-aluminum-replaces-gm-s-3037689-52479872/)
Rock Auto has the OSC 98505 with the padded edges it looks like for $27.
They also have the APDI/PRO 9010089 (3037689) for $28 but no padded edges. Some sizing info is supplied.
Also the TYC 96025 (3037689) for $31 it has some kind of added bracket & info on sizing.
Any thoughts on which way to go?
I should have some time mid month or maybe sooner to do the swap.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/buick,1987,regal,3.8l+231cid+v6+turbocharged,1020957,heat+&+air+conditioning,heater+core,6864 (https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/buick,1987,regal,3.8l+231cid+v6+turbocharged,1020957,heat+&+air+conditioning,heater+core,6864)
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http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/heater_core_replacement.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/heater_core_replacement.htm)
Jeremy, why are the links coming out so small?
It's the editor in the forum software - I just haven't had a chance to get to it. Kids are back to school now, my plates still pretty full but I'll see what I can do.
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You will have less time when they close the schools and send the kids back home for remote schooling! LOL
If you get time, also look at the picture scaling as shown above in my posting of David's pictures..
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You will have less time when they close the schools and send the kids back home for remote schooling! LOL
If you get time, also look at the picture scaling as shown above in my posting of David's pictures..
Pretty much why I'm busting ass to get stuff done while I can.
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http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/
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that one worked :)
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picture
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but the picture is still distorted in the X direction
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Hmm. Not many options - I turned off re-size on upload. I'll have to see if a patch fixes it.
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His pictures were too big to upload so I downsized them to 480x640 and loaded them. When I clicked on them and redownloaded them to my desktop, they were not distorted.
guess I can try something from another source.
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ok
now it will not take my pic LOL
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nn
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now that worked right. gonna have to go back and size thru Gimp which I did above and try again