IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => Paint and Body => Topic started by: gbsean on January 14 2011, 11:59:18 PM
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as some of you know I have been in this business for over 25 years... I will offer advice as needed or requested...at least I could be good for something here...
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OK, I have a question.
Regardless of paint brand or type, are certain colors more durable, and prehaps longer lasting, due to pigments etc.?
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Panel adhesive vs welding - your preference?
How to avoid the telegraph issue using adhesive?
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What's the best way to strip a panel down to bare metal?
Is this the least expensive way to prep a panel for paint if the latest paint job was shit and is spidering?
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OK, I have a question.
Regardless of paint brand or type, are certain colors more durable, and prehaps longer lasting, due to pigments etc.?
all paints are basically the same as far as today paints are concerned they are all
Base Coat Clear Coat and the clears all have UV blockers in them unlike the paints in the prior to the 1980's before clear coats
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Panel adhesive vs welding - your preference?
How to avoid the telegraph issue using adhesive?
nobody welds panels anymore at least on the newer vehicles. We used to sell a ton of mig wire and tips etc...but now it is all adhesives...de fine telegraphing issue as I have never heard that term
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What's the best way to strip a panel down to bare metal?
Is this the least expensive way to prep a panel for paint if the latest paint job was shit and is spidering?
if paint was spiderwebed... usually means it is lacquer...do you want to go to bare metal...easies t way is to chemical strip or soft media blast...if it is original finish again media or chemical strip...on today's paint finishes sanding is the preferred way as the primers today provide a great foundation for today's top coats...
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Panel adhesive vs welding - your preference?
How to avoid the telegraph issue using adhesive?
nobody welds panels anymore at least on the newer vehicles. We used to sell a ton of mig wire and tips etc...but now it is all adhesives...de fine telegraphing issue as I have never heard that term
Telegraphing -
A condition in which irregularities, imperfections, or patterns of an inner layer
are visibly transmitted to the surface.
ie: the patch shows thru, prehaps only at certain temperatures
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that happens more with welding as it can warp the metal...most of today's panel's are completes and not patches
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Telegraphing happens if your bodyshop techs are a bunch of tools and don't know what they are doing. Welding, adhesive, it doesn't matter how you do your repair, anyone with a clue can make the repair seamless. I've been painting for the 15 years and we have cold ass winters here in Canada. If a 12 year old kid with no clue can make a seamless repair, I pitty the guys who can't :)
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as some of you know I have been in this business for over 25 years... I will offer advice as needed or requested...at least I could be good for something here...
How many hours to re-paint a GN? I know many variables here but to narrow it down for an educated guess, not a national show quality job, but a good solid job. NO body work just R & R, strip original paint and repaint? I've gotten a couple estimates both around $8,000. They say $1500 in materials, and 90 hours of labor. 90 hours????
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There's always body work, and I would hope most of that time is put into surface prep. No matter how "straight" a body may seem - it can take a lot of work to make it right.
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I do understand that but if there was 10 hours of spray booth time ( seems like alot) 2 weeks of 8 hour days of prep work??
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First - I know little about paint and body and the business of it - gbsean should be able to answer this correctly.
It does sound excessive to me. How much of the prep work were you going to do yourself? Like removing bezels, trim, bumpers, taping what you can/etc. Or did you just plan to drop it off?
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to strip a car to bare metal is a lot of work and time consuming. When I did mine just stripping and prep was 24 hours...and that did not include taking all the trim...quarter windows...bump ers and fillers...gril le..spoiler... taillights etc etc...that was almost 18 hrs... then you have to tape and mask everything you dont want sprayed..as far as booth time...if it is in bare metal...you have to apply a self etching primer...then a primer filler...block that...then another coat...bock that...apply color...if going base coat clear coat...you then need to apply clear...wet sand and polish and then put every thing back together 90 hrs to me is low...there is a lot of work involved...
Now if you are taking it to a regular body shop they can make 8k in a day with a simple collision repair...and do those all day every day...most shops do not like to do completes as they can put the labor towards more profitable collision work.
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Thaks for the read guys. :rock: I'm going to have to do a full strip on mine to make the paint look 1/2 decent because of the repairs on the rear quarters and surface rust it has. :( So chem strip is the best way to get it down to metal and then sand the rusted area before priming? Then use an etching primer after taking care of the dents, dings, ect?
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I think high end shops do epoxy primer on metal. Bodywork can go over epoxy from what I've read.
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media blast is the best way...if you have to apply body filler...grind area...apply etch prime....then epoxy...then body filler...there are a few companies that make a self etching epoxy primer....most epoxy primers only have mechanical adhesion...ie a sand scratch...it is possible to scrape off epoxy on a smooth surface....sel f etch primers etch chemically yo the surface...epox y and self etch primers have very limited filling properties. There also a new generation of DTM Direct to Metal Primers that can both self etch and fill...if you give me a paint brand you will be using I might be able to point you to the correct products.
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Haven't picked a brand yet Sean. :icon_redface: All I've done so far is weld the new quarters on and hit it with primer so it wouldn't rust. My main concern so far was to get rid of the R83 ventelated rear quarter option so the wasps wouldn't make a nest again. :rolleyes; It's cheap spray can stuff so I'm sure it'll need to be removed before I go any further on the body work. :hmm
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to strip a car to bare metal is a lot of work and time consuming. When I did mine just stripping and prep was 24 hours...and that did not include taking all the trim...quarter windows...bump ers and fillers...gril le..spoiler... taillights etc etc...that was almost 18 hrs... then you have to tape and mask everything you dont want sprayed..as far as booth time...if it is in bare metal...you have to apply a self etching primer...then a primer filler...block that...then another coat...bock that...apply color...if going base coat clear coat...you then need to apply clear...wet sand and polish and then put every thing back together 90 hrs to me is low...there is a lot of work involved...
Now if you are taking it to a regular body shop they can make 8k in a day with a simple collision repair...and do those all day every day...most shops do not like to do completes as they can put the labor towards more profitable collision work.
These quotes both subed out the stripping using media blasting, $500. I get they make better profit from collision work, its insurance money. The book says 4 hours for something, get it done in 2 and extra profit, it takes 5 hours, add an hour to the final billing.
My car is solid and straight, just seemed kinda greedy to me with a 90 hour prep and reassemble estimate :chin: , but I'm not a body guy so thats why I asked. Again, it just seems like a guy wouldnt need 2 weeks, all day, to do this work. You would know, thanks! :atbeer:
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Most body shops do the full paint in stages and it's only done when things are slow. I believe house of kulor (sp) takes up to 3 years to finish a car from when they get it. I've had friends take their cars to a body shop and seen them sit for a year or more before they get them back, so keep that in mind.
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I have done 5 completes on GN's...and they are a PIA...rather do piece work....plus customer is never really happy....it not like swapping out a part..and there is always something hidden....
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And that's why I'm doing a frame off now. :x Floors are solid but with the frame being rotted in just a few places I want to make sure that I don't have future issues once it's done. :(
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Most body shops do the full paint in stages and it's only done when things are slow. I believe house of kulor (sp) takes up to 3 years to finish a car from when they get it. I've had friends take their cars to a body shop and seen them sit for a year or more before they get them back, so keep that in mind.
I have done 5 completes on GN's...and they are a PIA...rather do piece work....plus customer is never really happy....it not like swapping out a part..and there is always something hidden....
I believe what your saying but its a business, I own a business, that just seems unacceptable. I get its a PIA, its someones toy, they dont NEED it right now, but in the end your paying for a service from a business. If a place dosent want to do it they should just turn it down, but instead its accepted to charge "to much" or take forever. I cant charge more for the stuff that I feel is a PIA, or take years to get something done.
Just frustrated, I think most learn to turn wrenches because they feeled screwed by mechanics. When it comes to body work its accepeted that you will pay an unfair price because its something you could never do yourself. I think I'm average and it just seems like paint work is beyond a DIY guy, like fixing your own computer, its something most never tackle.
Just venting!!
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Understandable ..
You could always learn yourself - take a tech course or something..
I plan to dabble in it - I bought a body hammer set, we'll see..
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I keep thinking this is a body painting thread, click the link and it is a technical thread.
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Understandable ..
You could always learn yourself - take a tech course or something..
I plan to dabble in it - I bought a body hammer set, we'll see..
Pretty much how I did my rear quarters Mark. Did a ton of reading and then just decided to tackle it. First one came out ok but the second one will need very little filler to look right. :icon_smile:
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I keep thinking this is a body painting thread, click the link and it is a technical thread.
Go jerk off somewhere else, jerkie
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How rude! :tongue
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as some of you know I have been in this business for over 25 years... I will offer advice as needed or requested...at least I could be good for something here...
i am planning on painting my hood, trunk and bumpers (plastic Bumpers).
i will be stripping it down to bare metal
the car is a daily driver and sits out side all year long.
Once the car is in bare metal,
What would a list of materials look like from beginning to end?
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as some of you know I have been in this business for over 25 years... I will offer advice as needed or requested...at least I could be good for something here...
How many hours to re-paint a GN? I know many variables here but to narrow it down for an educated guess, not a national show quality job, but a good solid job. NO body work just R & R, strip original paint and repaint? I've gotten a couple estimates both around $8,000. They say $1500 in materials, and 90 hours of labor. 90 hours? ???
Where are you located? If you're anywhere near NC, I know somebody that can give you a primo job, for a lot less $$$
That's where mine is getting done now... Yes it takes time!!! Mine's been there just over a month and is going into the booth this week.
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I'm in northern WI. :( I'm in negotiations with an old classmate now who is in the business
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as some of you know I have been in this business for over 25 years... I will offer advice as needed or requested...at least I could be good for something here...
i am planning on painting my hood, trunk and bumpers (plastic Bumpers).
i will be stripping it down to bare metal
the car is a daily driver and sits out side all year long.
Once the car is in bare metal,
What would a list of materials look like from beginning to end?
in hoping ???