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Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: gnonyx on February 10 2020, 09:20:50 PM

Title: Winter Maintenance
Post by: gnonyx on February 10 2020, 09:20:50 PM
I started by replacing the intermediate exhaust pipes, muffler, and reused the original tail pipes
Replaced the powermaster with complete vacuum system, and I'm still working on them. I started by bleeding all brakes by gravity just to remove the old dirty brake fluid. Installed Russell speed bleeder, Bench bleed the MC, fresh brake fluid, and started to bleed the pass. rear. Only to find out nothing was coming out of the bleeder, I removed the bleeder clean it a bit and still nothing.
The bad new is now I have to replace the wheel cylinder, and reading how it's connected with a clip instead of two bolts. I replace the exhaust elbow/downpipe donut was damaged from moving back and forth when installing the mufflers system.
I couldn't figure where the ticking noise was coming thinking it was the donut, being I removed the throttle body to replace the shaft seal, and replace the oxygen sensor. Here I thought I was going to use a 7/8" wrench and the damn thing was so loose I removed it by just a few turns. Now I know where the ticking noise was coming from, and why the BLM was reading over 148.
I don't know if this is a winter maintenance or a winter project.I made a smoke machine and that's is how I found a major vacuum leak coming from the throttle body shaft seals, as this is the second time I replaced them.
I did found out these seals are not a direct replacement, and the following statement explains: The only available shaft seals for Buick GN throttle bodys measure 10 X 17 X 5mm. These are .010" oversize. ANSI Standards for these seals specify a maximum press fit of .0011"  thousandths. For this reason you really need to enlarge the seal pockets to get a good seal there. Distorting the shaft seal will affect its function.
I used my Dremel with a sanding band and rotate in circle inside the throttle body shaft seal pockets, and it fit pretty good, but the true test is when I use the smoke machine.

The left oxygen sensor is what I removed and the right is Denso replacement, and the damaged exhaust elbow/downpipe donut
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: Scoobum on February 10 2020, 09:58:26 PM
Some of the best money you'll ever spend on your GN. https://www.throttlebodys.com/ (https://www.throttlebodys.com/)
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: Scoobum on February 10 2020, 10:00:56 PM
Removing the rear wheel cylinder is a 2 beer job. One to remove it...and one to install it.
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: TexasT on February 10 2020, 10:21:10 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Powerbuilt-Brake-Cylinder-Retainer-Remover-for-GM-X-J-Body-Cars-648413/281309038983?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

One of these is pretty handy for the wheel cylinder work.
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: gnonyx on February 10 2020, 10:56:00 PM
Some of the best money you'll ever spend on your GN. https://www.throttlebodys.com/ (https://www.throttlebodys.com/)
I agreed with you, throttlebodys has great workmanship, but I like to challenge myself
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: gnonyx on February 10 2020, 11:04:05 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Powerbuilt-Brake-Cylinder-Retainer-Remover-for-GM-X-J-Body-Cars-648413/281309038983?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Powerbuilt-Brake-Cylinder-Retainer-Remover-for-GM-X-J-Body-Cars-648413/281309038983?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649)

One of these is pretty handy for the wheel cylinder work.
Wow, Now this is a nice tool and yes, I'm going to order it
Thanks for info
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Cylinder Removal
Post by: 1KWIKSIX on February 13 2020, 07:01:46 AM
I ordered this tool & Never could get mine to work properly!
Seems the tiny lil pointers didn't hold the snap ring tightly enough, so retired it and never used it.
Had to McGyver something that ended up working easily.
I used a large 1/2" drive socket that just covered the footprint of the snap ring and a large C clamp to compress the ring.
Worked like a charm.
I wouldn't waste my money on that tool, its sitting in my toolbox collecting dust now.
Just saying
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: john robertson on February 13 2020, 09:07:47 AM
I haven't replaced a wheel cylinder on a TR for a long time. Chances are, I never will again.  :(
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: Steve Wood on February 13 2020, 09:58:27 AM
John, sounds like you have rear discs!  LOL

My experience is that 50% of the wheel cylinders one buys these days are faulty right out of the box so it's a good idea to buy three and hope to get two that actually work and not leak the first time you use the brakes.  I told this to my son last year but he did not listen.  He got to go back and buy a third one....
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Cylinder Removal
Post by: gnonyx on February 13 2020, 11:24:12 AM
I ordered this tool & Never could get mine to work properly!
Seems the tiny lil pointers didn't hold the snap ring tightly enough, so retired it and never used it.
Had to McGyver something that ended up working easily.
I used a large 1/2" drive socket that just covered the footprint of the snap ring and a large C clamp to compress the ring.
Worked like a charm.
I wouldn't waste my money on that tool, its sitting in my toolbox collecting dust now.
Just saying


I searched the YouTube and found one guy in the same situation, but he used a 12-pt 1-1/8 and a large C-clamp
The largest socket I have is a 6-pt 1-1/16. I already ordered that tool, but I'm also going to get the 12-pt 1-1/8 socket as well.
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: TexasT on February 13 2020, 12:22:40 PM
Yu can never have too many tools. 
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: earlbrown on February 13 2020, 12:26:47 PM
I looked at that tool and couldn't figure out how it was supposed to work.    The way I do mine is to deburr the stamping on the ring with a needle file.   Then I wedge a metal box cutter between the axle flange and the cylinder. (the ergonomic tapered shape makes a nice wedge that holds it square).   Then I knock the ring titties with a hammer.


..and when it comes to china made cylinders, I think I'm the last person on Earth with a stash of S10 NOS Delco cylinders. :)
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: gnonyx on February 13 2020, 08:47:33 PM
Finallygood news, after installing the Russell speed bleeder, I Bench bleed the MC
again, fresh brake fluid, and started to bleed the pass. rear. only to find out
the wheel cylinder started to bleed brake fluid. The only thing that could have
happen when I open the bleeder to clear a blockage in the bleeder itself, left
it open as I continue to replace all the brake lines to the wheels caliber, and
drum wheel brake cylinder. After replacement I reinstalled the MC, add brake
fluid, and fluid started to come out on the pass. rear. The good news the
vacuum brake system all went well.Whoever claimed to replace the oxygen sensor from ACDelco to Denso, thank you. The
ACDelco number was all over the place, first it was high 700 then it will go down
to 300 and then bounce back up again to 650. The Denso numbers is reading steady around 600-700Onceeverything was put together, I used the smoke machine to see if the throttle
body seals, and the throttle body vacuum block, were good to go.Theonly thing I have to do is to readjust the TPS, replace the shifter handle, and
readjust the shifter to lock into the park location. 
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: Steve Wood on February 13 2020, 08:59:38 PM
Progress!👍👍👍👍
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: gnonyx on February 14 2020, 09:43:18 AM
Iforgot to mention for those would like to make your own smoke machine, and also
give credit to the individual on YouTube for showing this to us. After making
this smoke machine, I have leaks where the soap and water sprayer couldn’t find
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crc6CJ_ni2w&feature=emb_logo&ab_channel=BREW2L (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crc6CJ_ni2w&feature=emb_logo&ab_channel=BREW2L)

Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: Top Speed on February 18 2020, 06:12:49 PM
good work
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: gnonyx on February 18 2020, 07:55:41 PM
The good work is now rework
I'm trying to solve the high BLM numbers of around 136-141
This is after replacing the throttle body seals that were leaking vacuum
Now in the process of working on the downpipe donut, EGR removal, and maybe somewhere an exhaust leak or a pre-turbo leak.
Steve and some other mentors have been helping me out to which I'm greatly grateful.
Will continue to posts
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: Steve Wood on February 18 2020, 11:21:52 PM
The downpipe side does not affect the readings
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: gnonyx on February 18 2020, 11:56:18 PM
The downpipe side does not affect the readings
I agreed the downpipe has nothing to do with the reading, it's just one more thing that I thought was taken care of, but was still an exhaust leak
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: gnonyx on February 25 2020, 07:52:01 PM
All the work of trying to find my problem with the high blm reading is when I finally found the culprit.
I try to do something different and it work out great
I used my homemade smoke machine and connected to the downpipe A/F sensor; connected my shop vac machine to the tail pipe and block off the other end of the tail pipe.
Once I started the smoke machine and the shop vac, is when I notice some smoke and misted baby oil leaking from the driver side header gasket. What really annoys me is I replaced these header gasket about 10 years ago and haven't driven the car. During that time all of the spec was reading within the normal spec, including the BLM of 129.
I believe I used copper header gasket with no silicone and everything went well; so once my transmission gasket get deliver and installed is when I remove the driver side header.   
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: gnonyx on February 25 2020, 08:26:37 PM
What is a good header gaskets copper, Remflex, or Fel-Pro?
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: Scoobum on February 25 2020, 08:31:25 PM
Cheapass Felpro. They're hooked on the ends so they're easy to change.
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: gnonyx on February 26 2020, 09:02:04 AM
Cheapass Felpro. They're hooked on the ends so they're easy to change.
Would it be feasible to get Fel-Pro gasket and use the Permatex copper spray a gasket hi temp sealant?

Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: Scoobum on February 26 2020, 09:12:48 AM
The Felpros compress. I just used high temp sealer.
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: earlbrown on February 26 2020, 01:48:24 PM
Or just soak them in water first.  That would be cheaper.


Not as cheap as avoiding the gaskets all together, but still cheaper.
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: gnonyx on February 27 2020, 09:16:38 PM
Finally got the tranny gasket, installed it dry
Start engine, warm up, and check tranny fluid all is good
After engine warm up, check scanmaster and the blm is now 160, I guess the mist of baby oil finally gave more opening between the driver side header and crossover pipe.
Is there a donut between the driver side header and cross over pipe?
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: Scoobum on February 27 2020, 09:41:37 PM
No donuts.
Title: Re: Winter Maintenance
Post by: Scoobum on February 27 2020, 09:55:20 PM
If you need a new crossover pipe cuz the lip on yours has rusted away with age...don't buy the one from Kirbans. It doesn't come anywhere close to fitting.
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