IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => Paint and Body => Topic started by: gnonyx on November 12 2016, 01:00:52 PM
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Okay, I'm in the process of painting the header panel after repairing the crack left marker lens support mounting holes that was crack many years ago. I have read many threads on the do's and don't, but I want my 87 GN header panel to match the original body paint if that possible, or just add a primer (what type), and then paint it gloss black color and then spray it with a Spray Max 2K Glamour High Gloss Aerosol Clear.
Anyone have some ideas of this process and opinions? Thanks
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Reviews for that clear are impressive. Sure it wont make the rest of you paint look bad?
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Reviews for that clear are impressive. Sure it wont make the rest of you paint look bad?
Don't know if I don't try it
But I did more research and found that I need to do a base coat paint and not just any gloss paint. I'm also thinking of compounding the whole car since it still has the original factory paint. I will post some pictures of the header panel, showing the crack damage, repaired, and also the both replacement bumper fillers that needs to be painted as well.
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With our paint as old as it is I would try a Semi-Gloss finish clear if you haven't purchased it yet. That Gloss will be pretty shiny altho I've never used that particular product? Even the Satin finish shines up pretty good.
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I was trying to say that if you haven't purchased the Gloss yet, then maybe use the Semi-Gloss. Worse comes to worse you can spray one sheen over the other.
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Okay after more researching, I'm going to spray with black SEM Factory Pack Automotive Basecoat Aerosol about 3 coats and then spray 3 coats of Max 2K Glamour High Gloss Aerosol Clear. If any orange peels develops then I will sand with 1500, compound and polish. The only problem is the temperature not being a least 70*, and living in SC is getting cold. For now I'm just sanding all parts and waiting until the warm climate comes around again. I do have a propane heater, but still having the heater blowing air around in the garage even with the garage door open I might get dirt in the painted parts.
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Okay here are some pictures of the crack Header Panel and also both bumpers filler replacement
I know going with Spoolfull2 Fiberglass bumper filler, but I don't have funds since I already spend a lot of money of redoing our kitchen. I will also post a couple of pictures of the kitchen, and yes I did all of the work.
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Some more pictures of the repaired Header Panel
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The original finally crack and felt apart, so I got these fillers from EBay for about $120.00 and with free S&H.
The original fillers had metal bracket to which I utilize them for additional bolt on support on the replacement fillers
I'm now on the process of fitting the front bumper fillers
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Looks like some good work going on in the kitchen and on the car!
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It was my understanding that the particulates that break up the gloss to make semi gloss exist through out the layer. A gloss on top of semi would be be something in between I suspect?
I imagine you need to ensure a barrier between the old laquer and the new?
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Once the coating is 100% dry then the new top coat will be the shine you see. It may give it a deeper look depending on how many coats total? Also depending on companies the Satin finish might be closer to 25 year old buffed up paint but then your getting pretty picky so lighting would also play a role. Most of us wouldn't notice the difference I bet since we don't go looking for small differences in the sheen.
I could put Gloss on 1 wall of that kitchen (nice job!) Semi on another & Satin on the last wall & I bet 95% of people on a tour of the house would never even catch it. Cars guys would probably notice the header panel more when in a car show setting, but at the coffee shop I would be surprised if 30% noticed it.
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Looks like some good work going on in the kitchen and on the car!
Thanks Jason, The "Honey Do List" is getting shorter :icon_fU:
Now I have to do a lot of sanding and I'm also thinking of getting a Polishing Kit, and try to bring back the shine. There are some dings on the door and some minor scratches, but It's worth a try instead of repainting the car.
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It was my understanding that the particulates that break up the gloss to make semi gloss exist through out the layer. A gloss on top of semi would be be something in between I suspect?
I imagine you need to ensure a barrier between the old laquer and the new?
You're right about the lacquer layers of paint that might need to be totally remove if your painting your metal car. I'm wondering if sanding down to the point of just breaking through the base of the paint I might be able to spray a primer or an adhesive primer, and then spray the black base, and finally the Max 2K Glamour High Gloss Aerosol Clear.
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Once the coating is 100% dry then the new top coat will be the shine you see. It may give it a deeper look depending on how many coats total? Also depending on companies the Satin finish might be closer to 25 year old buffed up paint but then your getting pretty picky so lighting would also play a role. Most of us wouldn't notice the difference I bet since we don't go looking for small differences in the sheen.
I could put Gloss on 1 wall of that kitchen (nice job!) Semi on another & Satin on the last wall & I bet 95% of people on a tour of the house would never even catch it. Cars guys would probably notice the header panel more when in a car show setting, but at the coffee shop I would be surprised if 30% noticed it.
That is exactly my problem, I don't know what type of black base the factory used, how many coats (probably 1 coat) and what/how many on clear coats.
I'm not by all means an auto painter, but I did a lot of research, still maybe not enough to the exact original color other than do total repaint job. I will keep sanding down just to the base color, use a primer, and then paint the SEM Factory Pack Auto Base coat Paint, and finally the Max 2K Glamour High Gloss Aerosol Clear.
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The header looks like you did a good job of sanding so once the primer is on you should be good with most products out there. Almost 20 years ago my car was sanded down (nothing special) & shot with Enamel. Lots of people said you can't do that & you have to go to Bare Metal but mine is still holding on just fine with a half decent shine after it was professionally buffed out 6 years ago. I touch it up with regular Gloss Black Oil base paint I use on kitchen cupboards.
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My car was repainted after theft at around year 3. I believe they put a barrier /primer and BASF enamel over that. I think that is why my fillers have survived.
I think they took the header down to nothing to work out the stone chips tho.
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The header looks like you did a good job of sanding so once the primer is on you should be good with most products out there. Almost 20 years ago my car was sanded down (nothing special) & shot with Enamel. Lots of people said you can't do that & you have to go to Bare Metal but mine is still holding on just fine with a half decent shine after it was professionally buffed out 6 years ago. I touch it up with regular Gloss Black Oil base paint I use on kitchen cupboards.
What type primer did you use?
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My car was repainted after theft at around year 3. I believe they put a barrier /primer and BASF enamel over that. I think that is why my fillers have survived.
I think they took the header down to nothing to work out the stone chips tho.
is this barrier /primer also works like a sealer?
After the enamel paint did you also apply the clear coat?
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They don't promote or even sell old style Oil Base Enamel in most paint stores as everything now is Acrylic Enamel but I don't deal in Automotive materials. Chris Turbolicker would be the guy to ask about all the new stuff as the Technology keeps new products coming out almost yearly. I use water base 100% Acrylic primers that will stick to almost anything. Really tough stuff & if it dries on your hands you need a hot shower to get if off. Also Hybrid water base finish coats that need no primer & go over old Oil paint.
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I was trying to say that if you haven't purchased the Gloss yet, then maybe use the Semi-Gloss. Worse comes to worse you can spray one sheen over the other.
Too late, I already purchased the Max 2K Glamour High Gloss Aerosol Clear, and in the process of purchasing the SEM Factory Pack Auto Base coat Paint.
https://www.johnsonautobodysupply.com/SEM-Factory-Pack-Automotive-Basecoat-Aerosol.html (https://www.johnsonautobodysupply.com/SEM-Factory-Pack-Automotive-Basecoat-Aerosol.html)
#12423 GM WA8555 Black
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We didn't use a primer as the paint was just scuffed up. Cleaned it really good & sprayed it on Heavy! If I ever paint it again properly it will have to be taken down a lot as it's got about 1/16" of paint on that sucker! Many years ago I painted an old Gremlin in my garage with a Graco Airless Sprayer & Yellow Tremclad in an old dirty garage & if the Cat never jumped on the hood it would have looked halfway decent!
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I'm sure it will turn out Great, just so many options these days!
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Thanks, for now being it's getting cold I'll just stick to fitting the front bumper fillers, sand and prep both bumper fillers for the same paint as the header panel when it gets warmer.
In the meantime, inside the garage I'm going to try to polish the whole car with a polishing kit.
Will post the result in the future.
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How does it look like now? :icon_smile:
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I haven't start the project yet since the garage is still cold to spray paint.
All I have been doing is sanding both bumper fillers, header panel, remove hood, and both fender badges to do some minor body dings.
After all of the nicks and dings are repaired, then it's some light DA sanding, spray paint, clear coat, compounding, and then polish.
It's one of those things I do baby steps as I'm not body repairman, nor I'm an auto painter.
In fact all of the things I mention I never did before, but after reading reviewing sites and you tube, I'll give it a try, and if all goes well I well post the results.
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I know my last post has been a while, but many things has happen, including the "honey to do list" and now I finally got the Header Panel, and Bumper Fillers painted.
In my last post I did some body fills to some normal road cracks, and scratches.
After block sanding the body fills, I used a 3M Respirator Painting Spraying Face Gas Mask, and apply 3 coats of black sandable primer, waited until the next day to block sanded with wet/dry 800, used tack cloth.
I spray 3 coats of SEM GM Factory Pack Black (WA8555), 12 oz Aerosol 19423, Wait 10 minutes for each coat.
After the last Black Base coat, I then spray 3 coats of USC 2k Glamour Clear Gloss Clear Coat Spray Max Aerosol, and Wait 10 minutes for each coats.
I was worry at first thinking that after spraying the clear coat I would need to compound to smooth out the orange peel, but finalizing all, it looks like I don't have to do nothing but put it all together.
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Looks awesome in the pix. Maybe you could throw down some how to since you say you've not done it before yet it looks like it is second nature to you. Great job!
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Looks awesome in the pix. Maybe you could throw down some how to since you say you've not done it before yet it looks like it is second nature to you. Great job!
Thanks Rich
I rewrote the procedure I used, but if you like you can pm me your number and I can go into more in detail. Thanks again
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Looks awesome!
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You've got a knack for body/paint. Looks great!
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You've got a knack for body/paint. Looks great!
Thanks, I wish that was true, I guess the real test and challenge is when I strip the hood and do the same procedure as the header panel. Right now the hood has what I think is called "crows feet", and my understanding if it's not the clear causing the crows feet then it's the actual base paint. If the base paint is causing this, the only option is to strip down to metal and start from fresh.
Right now the temperature here is starting to get cooler, and the only thing I can do is the prep work from this coming spring warmer weather.
I will post some pictures of my progress
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I had 'crows feet' happen on this ATR front bumper when I cleared it. I switched to a different clear...may have been laquer or vice versa...whatev er the other one is. When I switched to the other...all went well. Think I still have both the cans in the garage. Will check today. The guy that stole my GN snapped the bumper in half. I'm just fixing it now....so I'll have a look today.
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I had 'crows feet' happen on this ATR front bumper when I cleared it. I switched to a different clear...may have been laquer or vice versa...whatev er the other one is. When I switched to the other...all went well. Think I still have both the cans in the garage. Will check today. The guy that stole my GN snapped the bumper in half. I'm just fixing it now....so I'll have a look today.
So what you're saying that scumbag try to steal your GN and damaged the bumper?
As far as the crows feet, I'm going to try to use 3M Trizact Hookit Foam Disc 6" 2500 and 3000 Grit, and see if the clear is causing this issue or the base paint. All I know I have a winter projects in a cold garage. I might have to break out the portable propane heater; and that thing throws out too much heat, as I'm going to have to open a little the garage door.
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Found the 2 cans. Enamel and lacquer. I prolly sprayed with enamel...and then cleared it with laquer...or vice versa. I've got enamel black...so I'll clear it with enamel. Warming this week. I'll get back to you on how it turned out...prolly Wednesday.
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They came out really good! :cheers:
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Found the 2 cans. Enamel and lacquer. I prolly sprayed with enamel...and then cleared it with laquer...or vice versa. I've got enamel black...so I'll clear it with enamel. Warming this week. I'll get back to you on how it turned out...prolly Wednesday.
The 2 cans that you found are going to be use on the bumper?
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They came out really good! :cheers:
Thanks David, Now I have to remember where all of the bolts goes back onto the header panel, front grill, etcs.
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I have a new can of Duplicolor black enamel. Gonna clear the bumper with Duplicolor clear enamel.
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I have a new can of Duplicolor black enamel. Gonna clear the bumper with Duplicolor clear enamel.
Definitely post some pictures after you paint the bumpers
I also painted both bumpers this afternoon since the weather was warm to paint.
I going to use the black base paint and the 2k clear gloss coat, but I already started with Rust-Oleum Ultra Cover black Paint+Primer. I already have given 3 coats, and I might give it another coat to fill in some pin spots.
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There's a pic of the front bumper on the board here somewhere the first time I did it before the car was stolen. I'll get pics up this week if the weather will cooperate.
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Here's the 2 pics from the first time.
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Here's the 2 pics from the first time.
front bumper looks really good
now are you going to use both spray paint you mention before, and will it look like the one in your pictures?
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Duplicolor is what I went with the first time...so I'm sticking with it. No reason it shouldn't look the same. You can't tell where it was broke in half.
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Duplicolor is what I went with the first time...so I'm sticking with it. No reason it shouldn't look the same. You can't tell where it was broke in half.
Like I said, the bumper really looks good, maybe next time if I do the bumper again, i'll switch to Duplicolor with the clear.
If you get a chance, post some pictures
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Hit it with the black base today...and it crowfooted in a couple places. Gonna let it dry in till Wednesday...sa nd them out and retry.
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Hit it with the black base today...and it crowfooted in a couple places. Gonna let it dry in till Wednesday...sa nd them out and retry.
I have a question for you
When you spray the black base, did you waited awhile then spray the clear coat, or did you just spray the black base only?
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I strictly hit it with the black base today. I'm gonna try and sand out the crows feet in a couple of days when it really hardens up. I was pleased with the finish work I did. It didn't show any scratches and you'd never know it was broke in half.
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I strictly hit it with the black base today. I'm gonna try and sand out the crows feet in a couple of days when it really hardens up. I was pleased with the finish work I did. It didn't show any scratches and you'd never know it was broke in half.
Hope all works well, and I can't believe that idiot broke the bumper in half. What was the purpose for breaking the bumper in half?
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We found the car 5 days after it was stolen in the back of an 18 wheeler. No idea how he broke it. I could write a book about what happened.
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We found the car 5 days after it was stolen in the back of an 18 wheeler. No idea how he broke it. I could write a book about what happened.
Wow, you are lucky to find it, back in NY if a car was stolen, it would be strip in 5 minutes and the parts would be in boxes inside an 18 wheeler.
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I know of mine and one other that were recovered, believe the cops were already onto the "ring" when they got mine.
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Okay...here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ko-pUW2rNY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ko-pUW2rNY)
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Paint is acrylic lacquer for the base and clear.
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Paint is acrylic lacquer for the base and clear.
WOW, not only did you did an excellent work on the paint work, and putting it together after being split in two looks great.
I see you remove the two little strip metal on the bumper, and that also looks good. I was thinking of also removing them from both bumpers, but I don't have a welding machine to fill in the bolted holes.
Are the ATR lettering welded in?
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The ATR logo was put in when they made the mold. This is how it originally came from ATR. I've seen other guys weld in the holes on a stock steel bumper to give it a 'smooth' look.
I did some searching on YouTube on why the paint will 'checker'.
Using two different paints. Different clear over the base.
Chemical reaction from the paint you're painting over.
Putting it on too thick...which I think was my issue.
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The ATR logo was put in when they made the mold. This is how it originally came from ATR. I've seen other guys weld in the holes on a stock steel bumper to give it a 'smooth' look.
I did some searching on YouTube on why the paint will 'checker'.
Using two different paints. Different clear over the base.
Chemical reaction from the paint you're painting over.
Putting it on too thick...which I think was my issue.
It's funny you mention about the chemical reaction
I sprayed black enamel on a tin can that was sprayed with black primer, and then I used the 2k clear epoxy over the enamel and after it started to dry some spots started to blisher.
I'm in the process of putting everything back together and I will post some pictures of how close the header panel is matches the original paint.
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One of the parts places a couple towns over from me...if you give them the paint code for your car...can match it in an aerosol can for you.
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Brad with some practice you could apply for the job of narrator on one of the reality shows! Definitely better than Huffing the Aerosol cans in the garage. :icon_eyes:
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One of the parts places a couple towns over from me...if you give them the paint code for your car...can match it in an aerosol can for you.
When I started my quest on repairing and repaint the header panel and also fit and paint the front and rear bumper fillers; I went to auto stores and PPG paint shop to see if they can do a spray can of Buick code WA848 black paint. They claimed no one does that, and you need to buy the pint or gallon, spray gun, and all the accessories that goes with auto painting.
I checked my truck code and found Buick code WA848 black which is also the same as the one I mention: Sem GM Factory base Black (WA8555)
The inserted pictures are the results to which I think is pretty close to the factory color.
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Nice job- looks like a good match to me.
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Nice job- looks like a good match to me.
Thanks, I was surprise myself after I finalize the last coat of clear
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created a new thread