IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Shimy87 on October 21 2015, 06:51:56 PM
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Been trying to determine/locate a ticking noise since I got the car. Thought I found it yesterday with 2 small exhaust leaks where the crossover meets the pass side header........ nope :013: So took a 3 ft piece of hose and listened everywhere. There are zero exhaust leaks. Listened all over the valve covers, intake, alternator has a small tick but that's not it. Where I hear it is on a round black plastic part on front of motor. I don't know what this is, think it's the cam sensor. Can this tick be adjusted away on this component or is it just transferring the noise of a bad lifter or cam lobe to this component where I can hear it? Farther back on the engine I can't hear the ticking anywhere with the hose??? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!
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some times the cam sensor will make a little noise and you can reduce it by pulling it out, pulling the gear off the shaft and shimming a little of the play out of the gear/case spacing.
In other words, the shaft has too much up and down play in it. Use distributor shims for an old chevy distributor
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Ill give it a try...new one is $260 :O
Thanks Steve
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That's why I was encouraging folks to buy them when we found some at ~$140.
Doesn't look like Scott replaces the gear?
http://www.gnsperformance.com/# (http://www.gnsperformance.com/#)!zddplus/c1de5
link trouble
http://tinyurl.com/camrebuild
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$220
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BUICK-REGAL-PONTIAC-Camshaft-Position-Sensor-WELLS-PC16-84-89-25518357-SU164-/251865855840 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/BUICK-REGAL-PONTIAC-Camshaft-Position-Sensor-WELLS-PC16-84-89-25518357-SU164-/251865855840)
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last new one I bought needed to be shimed right out of the box.
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Stupid question but I assume the shims go between the gear and the wave washer
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Somebody got a part number for the gear and reasonable price?
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Plan is to pull it and shim it Saturday, and then when I put away for winter in a few weeks pull again and send in for rebuild
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I got 3 cam sensors...3 coil packs...and 3 ignition modules for backup...plus one of everything else. :)
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Yeah. Good idea if you drive them at all :icon_eyes: I sure hope this gets rid of this tick!
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Got it out this morning,.074 up and down movement but none side to side. I read some where not to shim to tight, should I shim to a .020 up and down movement or tighter.....or is that to tight....I cant find any "spec"
As always...thank s!!!
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the replacement ones have almost 0.050" in them. I would try to shim to about 0.040"
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Shimed it to .30 ( closest to .40 I could get) put back in, test drove......sti ll has a tick. If I pull the valve covers will the hose to the ear test find the noisy valve? Cant hear any ticking just listening to valve cover?
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Is the tick consistent or intermittent? Does it vary with throttle?
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Varys with throttle....so unds exactly like a lifter that need adjustment.... .I know there is no adjustment on these but I really want to get rid of this....makes the car sound junky
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Do you hear it with the belt removed?
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Just tried it......yup :(
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Does it go away when the engine warms up?
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Have you listened down by the crank sensor? Might be loose and making contact with the reluctor on the back of the balancer
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Dosent go away when warm. Ill check crank sensor. Its not obvious when in park and you rev it, you can hear It though, but driving its very easy to hear.
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get some one to rev the engine while you lay on the floor and watch the balancer for movement
Also listen to each injector to see if one is making noise=more than usual
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Balancer is tight no wobble with rpm change and touches nothing. Injectors all click a little but pretty consistant, none loud enough to hear inside car.
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I might warm the car up and let it idle...then pull one injector harness connector at a time off and see if the click diminishes on any given cylinder...of course replacing each removed connector before going to the next
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What's the BLM count in park with the engine warmed up. Don't ask why I'm asking. :)
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Lol
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Hey Steve, I'm thinking outside the box here but could the timing tensioner be the culprit here?
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Maybe...
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Crank end play?
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He said the balancer was not wobbling or moving...
My first guess is what Brad is thinking. My second is lifter/cam problem...
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:068: :powersix: buick problems
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Gotta love them!
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I hope to be able to do the injector test tonight. On the BLM's i'll check that also, I think they are usually 118, I know they are supposed to be 128. So what is Brad thinking??
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118 means it's pulling fuel. I think Brad was thinking it would be high adding fuel which would indicate an exhaust leak
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Don't know how many times I have poured some top engine cleaner into one and had a cloud of smoke come up from around the turbo or from the headers or down pipe...from cars that had supposedly no leaks....oh, well, on to the injector disconnecting
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118 means it's pulling fuel. I think Brad was thinking it would be high adding fuel which would indicate an exhaust leak
I was looking for an easy way out. Shimy...leave it fat...you'll get a smoother idle. 128 is over rated. :)
I watched Norbs adjusting the idle fuel on his S1 engine. When he leaned it out it idled like crap...and when he fattened it up...it purred like a kitten...and it had a cam the size of King Kong in that engine. The ECM will compensate for fueling. Steve can explain it in detail. My engines have always come in around 117-118.
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Blm warm idle at 124. As before in park hard to hear tick but tried each injector at various rpm and no real difference made. Drive car and you hear the tick. In park reving motor hard to replicate noise. What in drive train would sound like a lifter tick. If it ticks when driving it should tick in park if its the valve train.....I would think....but as noticable as it is when driving its impossible to make it happen in park in garage. ?????? Making me crazy!!!!!
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Spark plug wire arcing?
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Shimy...can you get a brave soul to stick his head under the hood and listen while you put it up against the foot brake? Sounds like it's doing it under load.
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Sounds like an exhaust tick, get another guy to listen while you do like Brad said. Usually really hear this clearly under load going over bridge/tunnel where where you have the 2 concrete walls to rebound that lovely sound
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I will try it tomorrow. It keeps coming back to an exhaust leak. I cant count all the time ive spent checking with sea foam ( with no visable leaks) replacing exhaust gaskets, looking for cracks, adjusting connections slowly....if its an exhaust leak its the sneakyist frickin leak in history!!
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Did you kill the injectors as I asked?
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Grab a stethoscope at the parts store it's my favorite tool. I use the metal rod to listen for engine noise than I add a t fitting and a large vacuum line for exhaust and vacuum leaks makes it easy to pin point problems.
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Did you kill the injectors as I asked?
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yes....see above for detailed report
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So the tick did not lessen when any injector was disconnected?
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Did the rpm drop less on any cylinder?
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No......same sound with each one removed
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And the rpm drop was similar on each cylinder?
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Yes
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Chris Garrett has a new screen name? Sorry Steve...couldn't resist. :)
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So crank it up, turn out the lights, and look around under the hood to see if you see any sparks jumping to ground
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Just checked...blac k as night, no sparks.
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Damn....get a stethoscope and try to narrow an area down as was suggested. It might be lifter, I guess.
Check the front cover to see if the noise is coming out of there as on the tensioner as mentioned
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I will get one tomorrow and check around......wo uldnt a lifter, pushrod, bad cam lobe still be easy to hear in park. Seems you need to have a load on motor to get a tick???? I dont understand it
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well, again, maybe....I thought maybe it was a piston pin, but that usually diminishes when you disconnect the injector on that cylinder. Assuming the oil pressure is good, ticking lifters often disappear when the rpm comes up. If the lobe is bad, or the pushrod bent, I would have expected less rpm drop on the cylinder affected. #3 exhaust is usually the lobe that goes bad, but not always.
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what is the oil pressure?
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Warm its 25ish at idle. 50 when crusing.
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You have not been manually shifting the car when you were running it, have you?
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Nope....and racing I put it in drive, not overdrive
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is the sound louder in the car than out? have you inspected the flex plate?
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Louder in car. Flex plate seemed fine when I put new converter in a few weeks ago. Sound is same from before new conveter to now
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Okay got a scope. 100% no exhaust leaks. With the metal probe checked everywhere. No obvious tick louder than others. Took test drive . When you hear it best is going thru 1st and 2nd and slow crusing in 3rd at about 2100 rpm. If you accelerate the other noises drownd it out. In 2nd and 3rd at 2100 easy to hear. Got back and listened to valve covers again
All drivers side are same. Passenger side the middle one seem to tick louder than the others.
What would you guys do? As always, I really appreciate your help!! :cheers:
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You might pull the valve covers and check for play on the rocker shaft. Assuming all the bolts holding the shaft are torqued properly and no play between the rocker and the shaft, then I would look at the lifters. I've never had one of those teflon plugs that keeps the rocker in position break on me or come loose, so I'm not familiar with what happens if that occurs.
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Hmmm got a dial indicator?
You could measure the lift on the rockers to see if you are wiping a lobe on the cam.
Try disconnecting the torque converter and starting it to rule out the drive train.
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I cracked a rocker at the track a couple years back in high gear..but it dropped a cylinder immediately. Shimy...how many miles on that engine?
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66000
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The original engine in my car wiped a cam lobe at 30,000 miles...so it's possible yours is starting to go. If you're convinced it's a lifter...then I'd pull the intake and inspect the base of the lifters...and have a look at the cam lobes. Get everyone elses opinion.
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If it is shouldnt it get progressively louder? Think ill pull the valve cover and have a look.
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Before you pull the valve cover fire it and listen on the tranny with your stethoscope
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If it is shouldnt it get progressively louder? Think ill pull the valve cover and have a look.
The pressure in the one cylinder in mine kept getting lower and lower. Dan has the cam hanging up in the shop. Cam lobe is wore substantially. Think it was down to 115 when we pulled it. That block...plus a new cam is sitting between the frame rails. It's the one I've been beating on since July 2014. Joe tossed a new set of rings and bearings in it...and balanced it up.
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So if I do a compression check on pass side, if that center one is lower might confirm a lifter/ cam issue?
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The way I confirm is to yank the intake and look at the lifters wear pattern.
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The way I confirm is to yank the intake and look at the lifters wear pattern.
That is the best way. When You pull the valve covers off, all the push rods should be rotating when the engine is running. Number 3E will be turning slower than the others due to the position on its lobe. All the others should be rotating at the same speed. If you see one that is not rotating, you can bet on the lobe/lifter being wiped.
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Is 3E middle drivers side?
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I posted this on TBS a while back. When I apprenticed as an automotive machinist, we used an old dyno to check the speed the lifters were turning at. We had an oil line hooked up and an oil filter and oil pan on the engine...and that was it. No intake etc. I'd watch to see how fast the lifters spun. We used jobber lifters...and if they weren't spinning quick enuf...then we'd grab a GM lifter...and replaced it. The GM lifters would spin at a torrid pace. If yer' gonna use a flat tappet cam...use the highest quality lifter you can find. The lifters in my latest engine are GM NOS...from way back. One of the locals had put a set away...and was kind enuf to sell them to me. I had a set of CC's in another engine...but they were loud...sounded like hammers under the hood.
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Is 3E middle drivers side?
yes, 1,3,5 on the drivers side