IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense

Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: phil_long on March 18 2012, 10:53:24 PM

Title: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on March 18 2012, 10:53:24 PM
If I'm reading the diagnostic charts correctly, code 13 and code 44(lean exhaust i believe) are related to each other??  Code 13 just popped up today during cruise.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: ULYCYC on March 19 2012, 07:36:58 AM
I would clear the codes and see if they come back. If the 02 is old then change it. If the codes come back then it's time to look for other problems.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Scoobum on March 19 2012, 09:35:12 AM
02's and CC's slower than normal on your SM?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on March 19 2012, 02:20:59 PM
The cc's seem to be ok.  They increasing by 20 something each time.  As far how fast they're increasing, it seems normal.  Wouldn't be that big of deal to replace i suppose.  I'll reset the ECM to see if they come back.  Steve Wood told me that my MAF wasn't calibrated properly which is why i'm in the process of purchasing a MAF sensor.  I just received the translator, now i just have to get the MAF.  I was just wondering if that could be the culprit.  My INT is locked in at 150.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on March 19 2012, 02:45:42 PM
go ahead and install this sensor   http://www.densoproducts.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=1020957&pid=2238 (http://www.densoproducts.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=1020957&pid=2238)

and go get a maf sensor to work with your Translator
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on March 19 2012, 05:25:57 PM
Will do. Thanks.  Is this O2 sensor better than the ones they have at any local parts store?? Just curious
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: SuperSix on March 19 2012, 05:49:08 PM
Yes. They seem to take a bit more abuse than the A/C Delco or Bosch.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Scoobum on March 19 2012, 11:58:36 PM
Phil, grab the one Steve recommends. I've had two AC Delcos crap out on me...and have had to swap 'em out on the side of the road.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on March 20 2012, 12:18:11 PM
Alright guys, I'll grab that one.   :D
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on April 09 2012, 10:37:43 AM
I meant to post this a few days ago, but is there a certain procedure on how to swap out the O2 sensor? It seems to be in a very inconvenient spot...
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on April 09 2012, 10:42:27 AM
take the cover off the turbo so you can see a bit better.  Unplug the O2 sensor lead connector.  Slide the wrench over the lead and onto the sensor..remove
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on April 09 2012, 11:00:55 AM
Hahaha.  That easy huh?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: SuperSix on April 09 2012, 11:08:34 AM
Yea - once you get in there and use the right tools, it's relatively easy. Relatively.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Scoobum on April 09 2012, 11:18:16 AM
7/8 wrench...break it loose...then spin it out by hand. Should take you about 1 minute.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: WE4_Roller on April 09 2012, 12:00:14 PM
Neverseize the threads LIGHTLY upon install.
2500 degree nickel stuff.
Next time it won't take an hour like this time will.   :O
 
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: SuperSix on April 09 2012, 12:27:31 PM
Neverseize the threads LIGHTLY upon install.
2500 degree nickel stuff.
Next time it won't take an hour like this time will.   :O

I always used the anti-seize that came on the threads of the Bosch units.
The Denso I just put in comes with a little tube of copper anti-seize. I used just a teeny bit, like you say. I saved the rest for the turbo > DP bolts.  :rock:

Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: $1987 GN$ on April 09 2012, 12:38:38 PM
Be very careful with never seize on electrical connections as they do cause resistance and  cause the sensor readings to be off, they also can and do contaminate the O2 sensors.


AJ___
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on April 09 2012, 01:03:33 PM
the new sensor should have a sealant already on it
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: TURBOPOWERED68 on April 09 2012, 04:00:10 PM
Be very careful with never seize on electrical connections as they do cause resistance and  cause the sensor readings to be off, they also can and do contaminate the O2 sensors.


AJ___
Now you tell me :013: i use that stuff like its free and somebody else paid for it :D
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: ULYCYC on April 09 2012, 04:17:05 PM
Permatex Copper Anti-Seize is O2 safe and has no effect on readings. Just don't glob it on.  As Steve said new O2 sensors are pretreated. You only need anti-seize for re-install.  Other anti-seize products like Never-seize are made for industrial use and not electrical parts or sensors.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on April 09 2012, 05:53:05 PM
Lol. So the seize that came wit it SHOULD do the job tho, right?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on April 09 2012, 05:56:35 PM
why would they give it to you, otherwise? :)
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Scoobum on April 09 2012, 06:30:34 PM
Lol. So the seize that came wit it SHOULD do the job tho, right?

You can use what's left over for the holes in your bowling balls.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on April 09 2012, 09:16:57 PM
Yall keep me laughing!! Lol. Thanks guys. I let u kno when its on there. And i dont think the use of it for the bowling equipment would be beneficial.  :-)
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: daveismissing on April 09 2012, 09:30:19 PM
I don't think I've seen a bowling ball with holes big enough to fit my fat fingers.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on April 09 2012, 10:04:24 PM
Dave, i bowl wit some BIG guys!! Im sure there out there. Besides, u could always buy your own??  :rock:
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on April 09 2012, 10:08:00 PM
And by big guys, i mean tall wit hands the sides of Paul Bunyan...Lol
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: smokin-6 on April 11 2012, 07:35:00 AM
Permatex Copper Anti-Seize is O2 safe and has no effect on readings. Just don't glob it on.  As Steve said new O2 sensors are pretreated. You only need anti-seize for re-install.  Other anti-seize products like Never-seize are made for industrial use and not electrical parts or sensors.
Becareful with that stuff....you get it in your eyes you never-seize again :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: SuperSix on April 11 2012, 08:21:33 AM
Permatex Copper Anti-Seize is O2 safe and has no effect on readings. Just don't glob it on.  As Steve said new O2 sensors are pretreated. You only need anti-seize for re-install.  Other anti-seize products like Never-seize are made for industrial use and not electrical parts or sensors.
Becareful with that stuff....you get it in your eyes you never-seize again :icon_lol:

:groan:
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: daveismissing on April 11 2012, 08:34:33 AM
Permatex Copper Anti-Seize is O2 safe and has no effect on readings. Just don't glob it on.  As Steve said new O2 sensors are pretreated. You only need anti-seize for re-install.  Other anti-seize products like Never-seize are made for industrial use and not electrical parts or sensors.
Becareful with that stuff....you get it in your eyes you never-seize again :icon_lol:

First post? Wow that's some entrance you just made  :)
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on April 11 2012, 09:11:54 AM
He's the one that feeds Zap his lines :D
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: daveismissing on April 11 2012, 12:15:05 PM
We meet the puppet master at last :)
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: smokin-6 on April 11 2012, 12:57:25 PM


First post? Wow that's some entrance you just made  :)


I guess that was funny to just me :icon_eyes:

I have been reading post over here for about a year...coming from the other two sites. I had engine problems and Billy Anderson has set up an engine for me. I just got it back so I am slowly putting it in. I just have been out of it for a while, that's why no posts. Sorry for the dry humor :rock:
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: SuperSix on April 11 2012, 01:19:28 PM
First post? Wow that's some entrance you just made  :)
I guess that was funny to just me :icon_eyes:
I have been reading post over here for about a year...coming from the other two sites. I had engine problems and Billy Anderson has set up an engine for me. I just got it back so I am slowly putting it in. I just have been out of it for a while, that's why no posts. Sorry for the dry humor :rock:

I welcome the dry humor - better than the other "comedians" here.

;)
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on April 11 2012, 02:46:43 PM
some are comedians over here...some of us are just clowns....
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on May 02 2012, 09:11:14 PM
Changed that O2 sensor out today.  Haven't started the car yet or drove it, but i did reset the ECM.  Let you guys know if the code comes back or not. 
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on May 10 2012, 09:04:23 PM
Ok, finally got the MAF translator installed with the MAF!(thanks Early).  My car is mostly stock.  I got a 3" MAF, and I set the settings(initially) on 4, which is 3"LT1/caprice/impala(richer at idle) and I set the WOT on 2, which 4% richer.  Well, I got the code 44 again, and the car seemed to idle rough.  So, i changed the settings to 3, which is the 3" LT1/caprice/impala and the WOT to 0.  The code 44 did not return, but the car cutouts when I rev it up.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: gbsean on May 10 2012, 09:24:56 PM
did you fix the ECM connections I would not be doing anything until those are cleaned up
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on May 10 2012, 09:35:25 PM
Ok, I'll take care of that.  Thanks
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on May 10 2012, 10:11:42 PM
I just didnt expect the car to run worse after install
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on May 11 2012, 12:09:33 AM
good advice to fix one thing at a time...
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 04 2012, 12:32:12 PM
got the ecm connections done :rock:
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 04 2012, 01:49:04 PM
Gold star coming your way!  :)
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 04 2012, 02:08:10 PM
Yippie!!  Lol
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: daveismissing on June 04 2012, 02:17:26 PM
Pictures?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 04 2012, 02:22:29 PM
Havent taken them yet.  Wanted to be sure all was good.  I ended up going with the butt connectors that shrink with heat.  that was the fastest route seeing that i needed the car up and running for other purposes. Def take pics tho and upload them.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 04 2012, 02:25:31 PM
Also, I think I've narrowed down this code 44.  The code only appeared when I dropped the fuel pressure.  Don't remember the exact number it was at before, but it was def too high.  I have one more vacuum hose to replace, and I'm going to have the car checked for exhaust leaks.  Last step is getting the injectors flowed.  They are the original injectors and I'm not sure how efficient they are anymore...keep you guys posted
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 04 2012, 02:27:30 PM
and before I upload pics, note that the car is full of wire strippings, etc and I still have the ecm out.  Lol
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 08 2012, 09:30:24 PM
took one pic.  hadnt heated all the connectors when photo was taken.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 08 2012, 09:31:23 PM
and due the length of the wires, im actually considering relocating the ECM to the location of the glove box since it isn't used.  Just a thought though
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 08 2012, 09:33:05 PM
AND, i decided to jack the car up and check the fuel filter........ ..I'm not sure that it has EVER been changed.  Might explain my O2's remaining as low as they are....
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 08 2012, 09:33:36 PM
Thoughts?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 08 2012, 10:05:44 PM
If your fuel pressure behaves properly, that is not the problem...but, I would damn sure change it anyway

soak the fittings for a few days before trying
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: daveismissing on June 08 2012, 10:10:22 PM
I wasn't able to do this without some line "repair".
Give it a good soak as Steve says, but be thinking about plan "B"
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 08 2012, 10:12:44 PM
got em soaking now. seems as if the screw to loosen the clamp holding it in place has rusted completely though.  I have yet to monitor the FP while driving.  Guess I could do it in the morning.  i never trusted placing that FP gauge on the windshield.  I've read that some just stick it under the wiper?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 08 2012, 10:13:16 PM
plan B meaning......p ossibly new fuel lines?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 08 2012, 10:26:36 PM
just a fuel line repair kit....

If you have never monitored your fuel pressure, then you have no idea if your pump is good or the filter is plugged.  yes, just tuck the fuel pressure gauge under the wiper arm
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 08 2012, 10:29:02 PM
couple of something like this  http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=BK_7304932_0006464824 (http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=BK_7304932_0006464824)

Make sure they are 3/8" tubing, tho
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 08 2012, 10:38:06 PM
alright.  keep you posted
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 01:16:52 PM
took the car out today to monitor the FP for the first time since having the car. The FP def doesnt rise one lb per lb of boost.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 09 2012, 02:07:20 PM
well, change the fuel filter first....

What was the fuel pressure with the hose off the regulator and the engine idling?

Stock regulator, or adjustable?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 02:57:21 PM
Its adjustable, but i believe its the stock one.  the fp line on is 44 lbs right now, and line off it goes up to about 50lbs. 
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 03:02:41 PM
this is after the change of the fuel filter
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 03:03:18 PM
still seems kind of high tho.  i reset the ECM, but the blms still jump to 150 after idling for about 5 min
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 09 2012, 04:05:28 PM
something is not right, but, first take the line off and lower the fuel pressure to 43

Then, when it is warm, tell us the maf number, O2s and the blms?

Also, the vacuum in Park.

If the blms are high and the o2s are low, then I guess it is time to look for a leak?

Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 04:36:11 PM
Will do. And, one thing i will share for sure, is that i KNOW i have exhaust leak somehwere. My intent was to take the car to a shop and get the leaks welded up. Also would like to note that my exhaust is knocking againt the frame of the vehicle. All these problems were to be tightened up this morning, but i tackled the fuel filter issue. I will keep you all posted. My next step, lower the FP to 43 line off. Thanks
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 09 2012, 05:01:01 PM
If the exhaust leak is before the turbo, that will cause high blms

You did pretty good if you got that filter off!  :)

Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 05:10:50 PM
Thanks!! I was expecting the worse for sure. Also note that the injectors are stock, so is the wiring to the fuel pump. Again, all things im addressing. The car runs better now, but i havent went full throttle due to the state of everything. And the car doesnt wanna pull any harder after about 5-6 lbs of boost anyway.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 09 2012, 06:08:33 PM
If the fuel pressure does not rise one for one when the boost comes on, then the car is going to lean out....if it does not after the filter was changed, then you are going to need a pump and a hot wire.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 07:10:16 PM
Lowered the FP, reset ECM. After car warms up, BLM is 150. 02 bounces between 105-110. Maf reads at 7.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 07:11:31 PM
And vacuum bouncing between 13-16. Car is running rough and idling up and down. Tps is set at .44
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 09 2012, 07:57:26 PM
almost sounds like your fp gauge is not reading properly

What is the idle rpm?

You may have to go into the translator box and add some fuel to the idle.

Are the dip switches in the translator set to on, on, on, off?

Are you running a TT chip, or a stock chip?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 08:26:14 PM
the rpms was bouncing between 650 and 875.  Im running a stock chip.  The dip switches on the translator is set just as you stated, on on on off. the car is also cutting out when i rev it up in park.  I was reading another thread on here of a guy having the same issue, so i was just peeking in that thread every now and then and did things you guys suggested, which is why i changed the fuel filter.  I wanted to avoid two of the same threads going on at once. :)
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 09 2012, 08:31:51 PM
If you raise the fuel pressure  to 48 (hose off), does the vacuum get steadier and the idle smoother?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 09 2012, 08:58:27 PM
I don't see any real relationship between your problems and the other thread.

For some reason, your car is acting very lean.  If the fuel pressure gauge is reading right, then there would appear to be a big leak someplace.  Also, the vacuum should be up around 17 or so, and steady...this could be a big leak, or a missing cylinder.  The idle should be steady around 750 rpm...faster is often a leak.  Make sure the IACS are something like 10-30 warm idle in Park, and they jump up when you put it in drive.

take some time and inspect the hose between the maf and turbo for any holes or leaks at the connections.  Make sure the hose are on properly and tight on the intercooler and throttle body.  Make sure the vacuum block on top of the plenum is on tight, and not leaking.  Check the pcv valve and make sure it is closing properly and is not hanging open to create a big leak.  Check all the other vacuum hoses to be sure they are on the block tight and are not broken elsewhere.

Check the egr valve (when it is cold) to make sure it will lift up and pop back down when you move it with your fingers.

If all seems well, crank it up, let it warm up a bit, then while idling, disconnect one injector at a time and see if the engine slows down each time one is disconnected as it should when that cylinder stops getting fuel.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 09:09:27 PM
To answer your question, yes, the car idles better and smoothly when fuel pressure is raised.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 09 2012, 09:20:36 PM
and what is the vacuum with it raised?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 09:23:24 PM
Similar to other thread because the car cuts out. Since ive adjusted the FP, the car isnt drivable as it tends to want to die if i dont give it gas.

Also, my inexperience is about to show as I ask about checking the EGR and PCV. From the diagrams ive seen, the egr is the round thing on the driver side sitting between the injectors with the vacuum hose ran to it? I can take a pic of what i think is the Egr and u can confirm. Unsure about the PCV as well. Sorry.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 09:25:08 PM
and what is the vacuum with it raised?


Let me check
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 09:47:29 PM
Alright, idk if this is going to help, but im going for it: raised the FP to 48 line off, and the car stop cutting out under throttle in park.  The IAC DID NOT remain between 10-30.  It actually hovered from 10 on down to 3, and sometimes would jump up to 10-13,but not for long.  During the time it was above the 10, the vacuum held steady at about 17-18. 
 
Off topic, is there a vacuum hose running all the way to the back of fuel pump(or tank in general)?  Might sound weird (which isn't that abnormal for me), but behind the whining noise that the fuel pump make, I heard the sound of a vacuum leak from the rear of the car.  I could be reaching, but whenever I hit the throttle, that vacuum leak sound went away and the fuel pump whined at a higher pitch.  I know I could be reaching, but I want to be sure I share everything.   :) 
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 09:48:13 PM
And, when i put the car in drive, the IAC raised to 30 and held
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 09 2012, 09:59:50 PM
now the car about to piss me off.  I went back out there just to start it up and move it, and what do you know, the damn IAC count is at 70 out of no where.  im trying my best to patient, but geesh, why wont the car just work!!  or not work in an easy way so i can fix it.  I do appreicate all of your help and i never feel like thank you is enough. 
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 09 2012, 10:56:30 PM
First thing you need to do is to take a deep breath and calm down! :)  It takes calmness to keep from messing things up further.

When the car is cold, the iac will be a higher number and it will come down as it warms up and should be pretty steady after a bit of running.  We always check it in Park...it stands for Idle Air Control so whatever reads when it is not idling does not mean anything.

Now that you have raised the fuel pressure, what are the blms at idle?  It sure sounds like your fuel gauge is not reading correctly.  When you rev it up, does it run more smoothly now?

Second picture down on this page  http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/sensorcomponent_locations.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/sensorcomponent_locations.htm)  see the last vacuum hose on the back of the vacuum block that is larger and that is curling down to the intake manifold?  In the end of that hose is the pcv valve and it is plugged straight down into the top of the intake manifold.

The egr is on the drivers side of the intake and is covered by a round plastic cover...has a single vacuum hose going to it.  Pop the plastic cover off and you take both hands, put your fingers under the valve and feel upward for the diaphram...you should be able to lift up against some spring pressure and lift the egr plunger up...when you let it go, the spring should pop it back down.

There is no vacuum line to the back of the car.  There are three lines that run to the gas tank.  Fuel line to the fuel rail on the passenger side, a return line from the bottom of the regulator, and a vent line from the charcoal cannister that removes gas vapor from the fuel tank vent.  You might try taking the cap off the gas tank and see if the noise goes away
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 11 2012, 04:34:38 PM
I will keep u posted.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 11 2012, 05:53:48 PM
here is what I want you to do after you have checked things out.

With the fuel pressure regulator hose still connected, adjust the fuel pressure upward until the blms on a warm idling engine are down to at least 135.  Then, go drive the car and watch the blms at cruise at 70 mph...steady cruise.  See what the blms read at that point.  Hopefully, they will be somewhere close to right.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 11 2012, 06:10:30 PM
I can do that. And, the vacuum is holding steady at 18 after car is warmed up and FP raised to 48 line off. 
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 11 2012, 06:58:17 PM
which is what it should do...car is definitely starving for fuel at the lower pressure...so the question is, "Why?"

Bad gauge, or maybe bad injectors that are plugged up?  If adjusting pressure by watching the blms as i suggest above tends to work at both idle and cruise, then I am going to guess-gauge.  But, I am sure there is a saying about "guessing"  :)

Having a suspect fuel pump is not helping any, either
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 12 2012, 09:59:51 AM
Ok. Today i plan on checking the EGR. All the hoses are tight. As far as checking the PCV, what exactly am i doing to make sure its not plugged up? Jus observe it?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 12 2012, 10:07:18 AM
And these things i plan to do today.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 12 2012, 10:10:17 AM
Pull it out and make sure it rattles when you shake it.  Won't hurt to spray some carb cleaner in it to clean the varnish out.  I suspect it is okay now that the vacuum has come back with more fuel.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: ULYCYC on June 12 2012, 10:26:49 AM
What fuel pump do you have?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 12 2012, 11:25:58 AM
Thanks steve. And Ed, to be honest, i couldnt tell you what fuel pump was in the car right now. I do recall my mechanic(whatever its worth) saying that it was a walbro, but i thought to myself who would install an aftermarket pump with no hotwire kit? So im going to say i dont know what pump is on there to he safe. I guess thats something i can also check this weekend.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 12 2012, 11:45:18 AM
PM me your address.  I think I have another fp gauge around here.

If he put one of those "F in 69" pumps, then it needs to be replaced whether it is bad yet, or not.

In the mean time, either buy, or make it yourself, a hot wire as we know the factory wiring is inadequate
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: ULYCYC on June 12 2012, 12:38:51 PM
I usually don't like to tell a novice to do this but try it if you like. Keep a fire ext. or the garden hose handy.  Test the raw flow of the fuel pump.
make sure the battery has a full charge.
engine off, remove the schrader valve inside the fuel rail test port.
clamp in a length of 3/8 hose and enough to reach a gallon jug.
Put 12v to the fuel pump test lead behind the alternator. A a single wire with a black connector hanging next to the green connector with 2 white wires.  Put the jumper on the black connector first and then to the battery. Keeps the little spark away from the fuel hose.  Use your watch and see how long it takes to pump out one gallon.
Should not take more then 90 seconds.

Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 12 2012, 12:49:38 PM
Hey Ed, i think im going to first check and see what fuel pump is actually in there. Hopefully, i just need a pump and a hotwire kit. That would make me happy. First things first, i have to check the simple stuff. Should the car be running when i check the egr?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: gbsean on June 12 2012, 08:18:10 PM
hot wire kit is a must...bet you are only getting about 10-11 volts at the pump
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 12 2012, 08:26:13 PM
That's def my next purchase. 
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 12 2012, 09:29:37 PM
Also forgot to mention, I found a leaking injector on the passenger side.  The first one
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 12 2012, 10:30:47 PM
drivers side is 1,3,5 and passenger are 2,4,6

from the front of the engine..makes that the number two cylinder
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: earlbrown on June 12 2012, 11:39:43 PM
Hey Ed, i think im going to first check and see what fuel pump is actually in there. Hopefully, i just need a pump and a hotwire kit. That would make me happy. First things first, i have to check the simple stuff. Should the car be running when i check the egr?

http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/54018-how-install-intank-fuel-pump.html (http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/54018-how-install-intank-fuel-pump.html)
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 13 2012, 08:42:58 AM
Thanks Earl. I came across that thread least week when i did a search on fuel pumps.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 13 2012, 10:03:41 AM
this quick and simply thread is seven pages long!
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 13 2012, 10:48:49 AM
 :rock: :rock:  and if we keep acknowledging, it could make it to 8. :rofl:
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 13 2012, 11:05:36 AM
It ain't nothing til it hits 20!
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: tb3 on June 13 2012, 11:27:31 PM
walbro 340 in mine.
tried and true, right?
a simple plug and play for our fuel tanks, and good for low 11's, maybe even faster? 
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 14 2012, 02:22:00 PM
Have no time to do the work myself.  Throwing the car in the shop tonight, and I'm getting it back out tomorrow.  Let you know how things go with it.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 14 2012, 02:58:00 PM
what work?  should not you figure out what is wrong first?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 14 2012, 03:55:15 PM
If it is the leaking o ring...conside r what it costs you to fix it as opposed to spending $290 for a new set and a matching chip and spending two hours of your time if you bitch a lot!  :)
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 14 2012, 07:15:11 PM
You make a great point there my good sir. My hurry to fix the o-ring(or whatever the problem may be) told me to jus have the guy look at it. He's also going to test the flow of all the injectors for me. My luck lately have sucked, and im kinda pressed for time. I pick the car up tomorrow. Just got back from dropping it off. I've been driving it a lot due to me and the wife's sched. I fig'd one night and a little money was worth more than me attempting to fix myself. He also might see something i didnt. Good looking out Steve. Keep u posted on the progress. 8 pages
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 14 2012, 08:29:00 PM
LOL...testing the flow in the car is not always a good sign.  Remember Recap that was having all the problems with the car not running right, recently?  His injectors passed that test, but the thing that fixed his car was a new set of injectors after all the stuff that he replaced.....I f it cost you more than $100, then you have too much disposable income and you need another woman to help you spend it!  :D
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 14 2012, 08:52:53 PM
Hahahahahaha. Trust me, NOT the case. Lol. But i really need the car up and running, and if fixing that o-ring is done correct right by a mechanic, thats the route i had to take. And Steve, my one year anniversary is coming up n a year for my marriage. My money been gone. :( right now im PRAYING that this fixing majority of the issues. Gonna see if he can weld up my exhaust while its there. :-) and i got that gauge today. Let u kno when i get to testing again. Thanks again for everything
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: earlbrown on June 14 2012, 09:11:18 PM
Phil, didn't you post that your injectors are original?  If so I've already tested them and have your results....   
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 14 2012, 09:31:30 PM
It should fix the leak, but, I don't see how it is going to fix any problems.  Unless he is going to put the injectors on an injector cleaning machine, and then flow test them afterward.  Then you are up to $200 bucks or so and a new set of injectors and a modern chip really start to look good.  Hard to justify putting that kinda money into a 25 year old set of injectors that could fail day after tomorrow....

I believe in determining what the problems really are, and then spending money.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 15 2012, 01:21:28 PM
Yeah Steve, thats exactly what he's doing. I want to keep the car as stock as possible for now. I understand your point of not investing money into the old set, but had i bought that combo, i wouldnt have gotten it installed anytime soon and i still would be without a vehicle, due to the leaking injector. Even if these injectors fail in two months, at least i will have the money then to do what i want. Im pinching pennies and need the car now with no time work on it.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 15 2012, 01:22:18 PM
Phil, didn't you post that your injectors are original?  If so I've already tested them and have your results....   
:icon_confused:
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 15 2012, 01:22:31 PM
Lol
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 15 2012, 01:58:39 PM
Me, I would have the new set overnighted to me at a bit extra cost, and then had them installed if I did not have two hours to do the swap.  I did not realized you could not wait two days because you had to drive the car :)

I just have a thing with spending good money after bad.  I guess that comes from being old and having done it too many times in my younger days? 

Maybe you can refuse delivery on the fp gauge I sent you and save some money on the return shipping :)
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 16 2012, 09:59:53 AM
Lol. Im not THAT down and out. Im gonna ship it UPS thru my job. Probably wont cost me much of anything. My injectors failed the flow test by quite a but. The guy said he think that the gauge i have on the car now is wrong. Im going to compare yours after i get back from this funeral. The car runs A LOT better. Im actually pretty excited and feel that we are on the right track. Keep you guys posted
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 16 2012, 06:53:14 PM
Ok, so i just the other FP gauge sent to me by Steve. According to Steve's gauge, my FP is set at 23 lbs line on, 30 line off. The other gauge i took off was reading 44 lbs line on, 52 lbs wit line off. Thats scary
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 16 2012, 06:54:08 PM
If his gauge is reading correctly, that would explain why my car is running dead lean.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 16 2012, 07:19:18 PM
I just adjusted the FP to 42 lbs line on, 47 lbs line off. Blms dropped down to 137. Cars idling much smoother as well. I believe i have cracks in the crossover pipe and pOssibly the Passenger side header. I hear it but dont kno exactly where its coming from. That could explain blms i suppose
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 16 2012, 08:55:55 PM
would have bet a thousand bucks your gauge was bad.

What are your blms at steady cruise at 70 mph?

Jack the car up, get under it while idling and run your hands around the cross over joints and behind the Y in the headers where 3 and 5 come together
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 16 2012, 09:26:39 PM
Havent drove it on the highway yet. I can def say the car pulls soo strong tho. Im still NOT going wide open throttle yet due to me still tuning and stuff. Im just amazed at the diff of the throttle response, idle, etc that these adjustments have made. Let u kno when i take it cruising. I really appreciate all the help too. I know i have a long way to go, but im just happy to see some progress.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 16 2012, 10:12:25 PM
As you now have too much fuel pressure, it would seem that you must have a major air leak somewhere...I am trying to find out if the problem is constant between blm cells or mainly at idle.

If you can drive the car, then put it in second and get it up to about 2000 rpm at a steady speed, then flip over to blms and tell me what they are
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 16 2012, 10:22:32 PM
will do sir. 
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 16 2012, 10:36:23 PM
you can do a smoke test to see how bad it is leaking...go to the parts store and see if they have a can of Seafoam to dribble into the throttlebody.

Here are some instructions.. .. http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/maintenance/cleaner.html (http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/maintenance/cleaner.html)

Basically, you are going to unplug the maf, rotate the pipe from the intercooler to the throttlebody so that it is pointed up instead of at the innercooler, crank the engine and run it at a fast idle....dribbl e the Seafoam, or any other brand of top engine cleaner into the pipe while keeping the engine running fast enuf to not flood it and kill it...you can even use Marvel Mystery oil...smoke will come out of the tail pipes big time.  It will also come out of any leaks in the exhaust under the hood....see where it is coming from and fix the leaks

Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 19 2012, 09:04:49 AM
sorry for the two day hiatus. Thats a good idea Steve.  I did the test for the BLMS at 2000 RPM cruising in 2nd gear, and the BLMS where at 141.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 19 2012, 09:05:31 AM
And, should I lower the FP back down to 38 lbs before I pack this gauge up and send it back?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 19 2012, 09:23:58 AM
the fuel pressure for a factory chip was pretty close to 40 psi with the hose removed from the regulator...I think.  We often set them to 43 for a bit more fuel.

Most aftermarket chips are calibrated for 43-again hose off.

It is still lean according to your blms and it seems to be lean through out the range so I would not lower it from where you have it until you get it sorted out. 

You also need to find out if your fuel pump is good or bad by seeing if it increases pressure on a one to one basis.  You need to make or buy a hot wire to allow the pump to perform as well as possible and that would be my first step.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 19 2012, 10:08:33 AM
Yeah Steve, that was definately my next step.  purchasing the hotwire kit.  also, since the FP gauge that i was using is faulty, what brand do you suggest i go with for a RELIABLE FP gauge?
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 19 2012, 10:30:21 AM
Well, I always make my own as you can see.  I like the larger gauge and that is an Ashcroft, high accuracy gauge that I got from Graingers long ago.  Think it was rated at 2% accuracy.   It probably cost what this kit costs which should also work ok   http://www.metcomotorsports.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MFP0003&cat=107 (http://www.metcomotorsports.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MFP0003&cat=107)
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: daveismissing on June 19 2012, 10:56:37 AM
My Metco seems to be correct.

Buy?-I thought you were a harness maker by vocation Phil?

Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 19 2012, 10:56:42 AM
Damn Steve, you stay on top of it!!  Thanks man.  Thats a nice gauge.  So, my next purchase will be the hotwire kit and this FP gauge kit.  I wont be able to purchase for another 2 weeks tho. I'll box yours up and send it back to ya sir.  Thanks for everything
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 19 2012, 10:57:33 AM
My Metco seems to be correct.

Buy?-I thought you were a harness maker by vocation Phil?


Lol, yes, buy.  I like to try and keep people employed! :D
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 19 2012, 10:59:36 AM
I think im gonna start a thread showing my latest project at work that i did in a weeks time.  the job was def suppose to take at LEAST a week and a half to two weeks
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: daveismissing on June 19 2012, 11:00:23 AM
You and I manage to keep Steve and Ed busy, I'm just not sure that's the same as "employed"  :)
Perhaps the invoice is in the mail  :O
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 19 2012, 11:13:01 AM
You and I manage to keep Steve and Ed busy, I'm just not sure that's the same as "employed"  :)
Perhaps the invoice is in the mail  :O
Not regarding Ed and Steve!!!  Lol.  Regarding stores like turbotweak, gbodyparts, etc.  Basically vendors that support our cars.  Just trying to do my part in keeping them a float.  Ed and Steve are loaded with knowledge. The invoice might be in the mail.  Just dont tell them. :rock:
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 19 2012, 11:17:59 AM
the only person I know that is in your class, Dave, when it comes to Googling is my son.  A valuable skill!

I think that Ashcroft gauge was a 1% gauge and it cost me something like $60 12 years or so ago.

Hot wire set ups are dead easy to do, but the after market prices are reasonable these days.  http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1014-Buick (http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1014-Buick)

Might be worth the time to do it in some cases.

I remade one on Sunday.   used a 10 gauge maxi fuse holder from the back of the alternator to a 30 amp relay on the inner fender (replaced the in and out terminals on the relay with 10 gauge terminals)...ten gauge wire to the back of the car where I spliced into the pump power wire.

Triggered the relay off the fuel pump test connector under the hood.   Dead simple.

The one in the kit mounts the relay under the car and triggers it with the original fuel pump feed.  It is nice and professional and costs $45 which is not too bad when you consider the effort it takes to make it.

Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 19 2012, 02:28:27 PM
Yeah, I thought $45 was a reasonable price for it.  And that Ashcroft is really nice.  When i took it out the box i was like, "what in the hell is this? It's HUGE!!"  :rofl:
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 19 2012, 03:44:36 PM
easy to read at speed...safety factor :)
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: daveismissing on June 19 2012, 03:48:08 PM
Four inch jobbie?
Be great for a hood mount...
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 19 2012, 03:53:30 PM
That thing would block all line of sight on the hood.
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on June 19 2012, 03:56:20 PM
 :rofl:
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: daveismissing on June 19 2012, 05:35:21 PM
Bet all the ricers would want one!
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 25 2012, 05:16:32 PM
Bet all the ricers would want one!
they do like big things dont they?  except for cars....
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on June 28 2012, 12:25:24 PM
one more day before i order that nice gauge and hotwire kit!!!!
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on July 03 2012, 09:13:30 AM
Alright, so it looks as if my decision to get my original injectors repaired was the "ideal" thing at the time.  I got a call from turbotweak yesterday and the lady i spoke with said that the injectors was on backorder, as well as the hotwire kit that i ordered. :icon_confused:   I dont mind running my own hotwire, but there's nothing i can do about the injectors/chip combo.  They've been on backorder for a min, and she said they can't keep them in stock because they're selling like crazy.  I told her to call me when they get them in. 
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: Steve Wood on July 03 2012, 09:17:43 AM
Glad to see you made the right decision in spite of the derision aimed your way!  :D
Title: Re: Quick and Simple ?
Post by: phil_long on July 03 2012, 10:04:45 AM
Glad to see you made the right decision in spite of the derision aimed your way!  :D
:rofl:
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